Tbh it hits everything very accuratly. At least in 3v3\4v4 its a meta for a soviet to spam them. Imo it would have been some what alright if not the fact that it comes with 6 models, and to decrew it you need to kill all 6 of them.
With its raw damage, its impossible to counter it with your own mortar, not only because 120mm outranges and outdamage you, but because it can outsit you. This only allows it additional aggresive placement, making it even more accurate.
But over-all I would say that it performs somewhat on a resonable level, but it survivability should be tonned down drastically, to be 4\5 men and decrewing with 1 model left like other mortars. Considering you already have better range and damage, there is no reason for it to be almost immune to other inderect inits and hard to decrew.
This and the fact that almost all of the best soviet commanders comes with it.
5 models*, but let's be honest since it is 1 guy retreat, it is might as well be 6men. But I agree at least it should be 5men/2 retreat healthpool.
In 2v2 it is overperforms imo. People build 2 of them and it is a true nightmare. 1 shell feels like getting hit by a IS-2, since it slashes 70/80% of squad's health.
I like the unit, but imo it is slightly too good, because you can't fight in its firing arc and it punishes OKW way too much (see clip above)
So if I read this correctly a CP 0 engineer unit can not walk in trough open ground and defeat a more expensive mid range infantry that has has been upgraded with a weapon.
AssEngies are 280mp/60muni 5men 7 popcap with 28 MP reinforce cost
PanzerFus are 270mp/80Muni 6men 8 popcap with 25 MP reinforce cost
Pfusies are 0Cp, same with AssEngies. The only difference is the upgrade timing.
So they are not more expensive, if anything PFs are more cost efficient and better combat unit overall, while AssEngies is just a cqc squad with flamer with ability to place wire and mines, with occasional repair (because USF more often then not does not need auxiliary repair unit. PFs are a recon/mainline hybrid, with great moving dps. Also that reinforce cost is compounded by the fact that it is CQC unit and those units bleed more then typical midrange squads.
You use them to ambush, cutting retreat path, bait and flank etc... The problem here is Pfuss will simply melt them before they could do anything. And Pfuss aren't obers or pgrens.
I know how to use them, its just some cqc infantry are just simply better and some are very tricky and ultimately less cost efficient to use to a point of not even bothering building, or picking a commander with it.
So I did some test and found out that it is roughly 50/50 if assengies engage from 20-25 meters and my suspicion about PPsH guards were wrong. My earlier results seemed like consisted from borderline best case scenarios.
So the question is: are panzerfusiliers that good, or perhaps most cqc infantry that bad? Once PGrens arrive vs OST, or obers - your cqc infantry become expensive ordeal. Also vehicles, hmgs etc. That is why you see much more guards then shocks with SOV. Guards, apart from having vehicle crowd control, are constantly doing damage, while cqc infantry had to go very close to do it or waste muni in the process of doing so, otherwise they have very limited use. So, in my opinion, the cqc infatnry that works have either combination of great timing+sprint with assnades (assgrens) or having something heavy hitting like tommyguns (assguards, cavrifles, rangers) so if you get close enough, you are getting the maximum out it, not some 4 seconds outdps nerfgun action. Also there are commandos, but those guys are another story, same with stormtroopers.
About Panzerfusiliers: I never found PF to be that great, but things may change after sandbag nerf and I assume after AT is on the field most cover, but tanktraps, will be temporary. Even though flame nade is great, I think sandbags was that thing that gave volks that edge over PFs.
As a side note, I wish assengies could built tanktraps. It is a the best cover and having it on actually decent combat unit (with flamer) might make it more attractive
120mm has been the only consistent tool I've seen for dealing with spammed machine guns in an urban area. And its REALLY STRONG. Especially backed with 1.1 OHK radius T-34/85s. Essen Steelworks is only humane with 120mms.
On another note, all the tanks with 1.1 OHK radius should be toned down to mitigate wipe power.
the problem is that it is way too accurate and hits like a truck everything. 1 accurate hit and squad is no longer fit for combat
I think 120mm should be toned down a little, or perhaps moved into more obscure commanders. It is way to good on its own and lately it is a common strat to spam them in 2v2. Because of their range, the only effective way to counter them with OST is leFH, because werfer rarely delivers at long ranges.
Stormjager got rekt by the Sturmtiger in this match (https://youtu.be/1pD0qQ3k_8A?t=1030) and I wouldn't call his play low level. He outplayed his opponent and pulled some great moves to counter two Sturmtigers, even if it was all futile.
tell those guys to l2p. Take a closer look at those games. Just because there are few strats that are supposedly counter ST, does not mean it is fine.
Before creating this thread I just didn't went by my "feeling" but actually took time and asked Duffmann, Siberian, Jibber, Elpern + you get the reaction of KThez, which called it a "Scumtiger". You have majority of the community trolling this unit and outright calling it toxic, casts, data of Elite Armor pickrate, but it is fine, because Paths with 2 at guns counter it. Units got nerfed for much less, like falls with faust or Tiger with Panzer Commander.
I can't come up with justification for COH2 meta, where oneshotting units, that only 2 faction has access to are part of it.
Pls, might as well bring back low scatter B4 and while Balance team are working on it, perhaps give something similar to USF. That would be nice. The dream meta of the game that revolves around unit preservation.
Aren't Airguards 6 men or did you delete a model to even it out? If not, even after losing a model, they are still as capable as assault engineers.
I can't tell what made the difference in your tests. Maybe those are real. Do you by any chance remember if some squads dropped models early? Formation has a huge impact on which model can be focused, and if squads drop models early that is a big deal.
The point I quoted was more that the grease gun and PPSh are very similar, also when moving. The differences in performance come from something inherent to the squad, but not the weapon.
I did delete 1 model and they still performed consistently better. That is the weird thing about all that. I'll make a more elaborate test later this day.
So you define what the game is like at lower levels and when your description no longer fits that's a problem? The game promotes blobbing at lower skill levels? Well no more of that with the Sturmtiger. Scouting is less relevant? Well maybe it isn't. Makes no sense.
if Sturmtiger was only effective against blobs, the thread would not have been created in the first place. This is just a silly argument.
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