Id be perfectly happy removing sturmtiger and brit AVRE from the game
this is the best and the easiest solution. You have my vote 
The other route is make them stationary during wind-up (lock the movement) and increase the delay by 1.5x..2x for both units. |
I dont have problem with ST being nerfed, but so far, no offence to anybody on this thread, most of the relies are either a rant, holywar or suggestions which would just break the unit.
I'm sure there are some good suggestions, but I its hard to see when we have 11 pages of a shitstorm.
Maybe CP\Price increase, maybe count it as heavy tank locking KT out, maybe make it immobile while reloading, maybe increase firing time even more, maybe add crewshock debuffs if fired on. But people have the idea that the only way to fix ST is to butcher its combat perfomance, either blantly by comparing it to AVRE or without even comparison.
I think it would have been easier if there were less blatant fanboys that may even go as far as comparing ST to katy and going on a couple dozens comments long tangent, but we have what we have. Also I have a suspicion that balance team does not give even several crap about this forum. Won't be surprised of they think the unit is OK.
I'm okay with butchering any of those units performance, the game is very tame, caused by of lots of iterations of nerfs, but such units just bust through everything. ST and AVRE same with B4 should be a meme fun unit, not competitive one. Goliath is a meme unit, b4 used to be one, and those unit should have the same role. They should be "fun" but not strong. |
To be frank here all early heavily armored tanks have this problem. Any heavy tanks (even KV-1 with its meh penetration) can bully medium tanks without much of a fear early into the game.
But its not the point. When we take ST suviability into a considiration, its indeed is very sustainable to damage, but lets be fair here AVRE is not different in this regard.
Not really, because all early heavy tanks have very limited combat potential, so yes, they are strong for their timing, but not "wipe an AT gun, while getting shot by another AT gun and safely retreating" type of strong, if you know what I'm saying.
AVRE may be a problem if it gets same treatment as ST (with projectile behavior), but for now it is a niche unit, which I have no issues of being nerfed, but ST nerf is indeed necessary.
On top of the fact that ST takes longer time to shoot.
AFAIK the overall time is the same. Feel free to bring up the numbers. it is indeed 0.5s faster |
For allies TD its nothing special like at all. Not a single stock medium can reliably fight heavy tanks to begin with, only premium ones (EZ8\T34-85) have at least some chances of doing so.
Name at least 1 unit, besides Panther and heavy tanks, that can reliably fight Allies heavy tanks. The only 2 closest units might be the JP4 and Stug, but both of them are RNG cannons since all their damage comes from supperior firerate but penetration is on pair with premium mediums.
Also how is P4J is a basic medium? Its litteraly the most expensive stock medium of the game and its cost is on pair with premium mediums. Its armor is a trade-off for HP, since it has 640HP while premiums have 800. When it comes to medium vs medium P4J is supperrior due to its armor, but again both EZ8\T34-85 is also supperior then the standart P4.
I think the point was that maybe ST should be fragile enough to have decent chance to be penetrated by medium tanks. Nobody said that P4J should have lower armor etc, because at 8CPs, more often then not, you can afford a ST and just indefinitely bully your opponent without fear or repercussions. |
I've seen several people post this. Yes it has a massive amount of hitpoints (1280-1440), but the armor is nothing special. 220-242/110-121 front/rear armor is bad for a heavy vehicle. For comparison, the AVRE has 290/180 armor.
When doing balance comparisons/reviews, its armor is definitely not a factor to take into consideration. It won't bounce much. Its durability comes mostly from raw health.
It will bounce a lot from a medium and can bounce a long range shot from an AT, but I agree armor is the least problem to worry about in this unit. |
IS-2 is unreliable but still has pure stats that make up for it, and when it does hit, it hits hard.
Its AI is pretty good. While the scatter is one of the worst from heavy tanks, it is still fairly good, definitely better then what premium mediums have. I got my ass handed to me by it in several matches while playing OST. |
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Imagine thinking that only Allies have access to rocket arty. What a special character lmao |
Allies dont need much flanking they have superior AI to disrupt an AT gun line.
HMG42: Am I a joke to you? |
And how is this different when you put 2 at guns behind the back of a kv2? or isu152? or calliope? because i had to deal with this tactic for ages now. now the allies have to deal with something similar it suddenly is a problem?
ISU and KV2 are not meta anymore. I haven't seem ISU in 2v2 in ages, same with KV2. Cali might be a single thing that clings USF to teamgames, but I agree it is a BS unit.
ST is meta in 1v1 and 2v2 and practically uncounterable. The moment it's out, the game stops being fun for your opponent. What exactly is so hard to understand about this? Or you just so filled with vengeance for the opposite faction that you want every player who play it suffer, because you did because of an X unit? What kind of logic is this? |
More of a learn to adapt issue . For a very long time the cookie cutter build to the okw was to setup an AT-gun line and then smash the okw infantry with superior allied arty. You get introduced to one unit that can tear apart an at gun reliably, and suddenly it's a problem? as you said yourself soviets have mark targets the other allied factions have their own Anti heavy tank doctrines . Perhaps they should use fewer calliopes and land mattresses
I'm like 25 games deep with Sturmtiger and I haven't seen a single guy who could reliably counter it and in some cases it straight up won games for me, because it wrecks everything, not only AT guns. Perhaps you can show us several replays with detailed instruction how to kill it. And if you think that there is anything that kills support weapons as reliably as ST, I don't believe you. Shotgun Katy and calioppe do not count, since they have miniscule amount of health so are prone to flanks.
But good luck flanking ST. By the time you kill it, your tanks will brake their guns smacking that fat ass lmao. Pretty much you need to screw up big time to lose that behemoth. |
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