Profile of gbem

Avatar Area

Offline Unknown SteamID unknown
Posts: 1979

General Information


Thread: Conscript PPSH assault package3 Nov 2020, 20:14 PM Jump back to quoted post3 Nov 2020, 20:01 PMVipper If you want to add the cost of tech for conscripts you have to add the cost of truck for OKW. The tech Myth has been debate again again and it should be over by now. As matter of fact OKW probably have one of the worse tech systems in the game currently and that is why the MOD team is contemplating way of improving it. then you have to add the SOV tech system aswell... mech HQ is basically sov T3 yet guess which one costs more... In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Conscript PPSH assault package3 Nov 2020, 19:00 PM Jump back to quoted post3 Nov 2020, 18:36 PMPip I'd make the argument that base Cons outclass Volks, actually. Pound for pound you're getting more out of Cons at most points in the game, except during a period after STGs. The main thing holding Cons back there is that they must buy AT grenades and Molotovs, which i would agree should be tweaked, but their combat performance is similar, and Cons in the lategame are by far a better unit. conscripts lose to volks at ranges above 10 and still bleed relatively more since volks never had their reinforcement cost adjusted to match their new price... in the end you still have to outnumber volks to win against them and granted its very much doable to delay or even beat volksgrenadiers with just conscripts... but to say that cons outclass volks and not the other way around is wrong.... and yeah... theres the AT nade/molotov which you have to pay for... Jump back to quoted post3 Nov 2020, 18:36 PMPip The other difference between the Assgren-PPSHcon comparison and the PPSHcon-MP40Volk comparison is that Assgrens in the lategame have no utility, and are pretty much only good as a capping squad. Both Cons and Volks still maintain utility into the lategame through snares (And for the MP40 volks, smoke) so whichever one "loses" the other unit isn't made into basically a waste of population. this doesnt address my argument of volk mp40 winning against cons PPSH... but i will say that 240mp + 60 muni and 260mp + 45 muni is more expensive than 280 muni... the airborne drop for munitions costs 200mp and provides 50 munitions which gives us a somewhat workable "mp to muni exchange rate" even if it is a very conditional exchange rate... and even if u treat MP and muni as 1 to 1 in exchange then cons/volk upgrades are still more expensive than assgrens... Jump back to quoted post3 Nov 2020, 18:36 PMPip You could make the argument that Cons or Volks should win here, but Volks are indeed more expensive. 240mp + 60 muni vs 260mp + 45 muni... they cost around the same but the former not only wins against the latter but also gets smoke and HE... Jump back to quoted post3 Nov 2020, 18:36 PMPip And again, Volks don't have merge, and MP40 Volks can't deal with buildings. the HE nade outclasses the incendiary nade IMO... i find HE nades great for open combat while molotovs are only useful in urban warfare... at that point id just use flamers (which the doctrine gets)....the one case id say the incendiary/molly outclasses the HE nade is when you are fighting MG42s... merge is good for merge/flamer but with the a weapon upgrade it really isnt that good anymore... In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Conscript PPSH assault package3 Nov 2020, 18:48 PM Jump back to quoted post3 Nov 2020, 18:31 PMVipper The try to win in game and see what happens. against cons PPSH? yeah thats been done already... Jump back to quoted post3 Nov 2020, 18:31 PMVipper No it is not, Conscripts where balanced not to have an early weapon upgrade. then why are conscripts widely considered as the worst line infantry in terms of combat ability? they are widely considered to be worse than volksgrens... Jump back to quoted post3 Nov 2020, 18:31 PMVipper VG are balanced to have a weapon upgrade and thus the weapon upgrade need to be worth the commander slot. That is why Pg get a better G43 and that is Thompson does not use a smg profile. indeed that is true a commander upgrade should be worth the slot... unfortunately the problem arises when the base unit isnt balanced against its competition at all... base volksgrenadiers are superior to base conscripts to the point where the meta against OKW has always been M3 > penal because conscript is simply untenable... also your example is flawed PGs dont get a weapon upgrade...in fact by citing that example youve given further proof to buff cons PPSH... Jump back to quoted post3 Nov 2020, 18:31 PMVipper Now as I pointed out when first patched ppsh conscripts dominated the meta, if now the do not cut it they have simply been power creeped and buffing them is not the solution. there are several reasons as to why i doubt a buff to cons PPSH will result into them dominating though... first is that during the era of Cons PPSH one would never use it against OKW... cons ppsh was meta only against ostheer since STG volks (and now MP40 volks aswell) outclassed PPSH cons and going flame penal blob meant the MG42 would punish you hard for the high cost/low field presence of the penal.... the meta against OKW was instead the far scarier M3 flame penal blob... without the MG42 cons PPSH wouldve never been meta against ostheer... its far easier to just blob flame penals and wipe the opponent off the map... Jump back to quoted post3 Nov 2020, 18:31 PMVipper In addition I perosnally do not like the mosin/ppsh combo. agreed... its a mistake... In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Conscript PPSH assault package3 Nov 2020, 18:25 PM Jump back to quoted post3 Nov 2020, 18:20 PMVipper Play a game with friend using VG Mp-40 vs PPsh conscripts and see what happens. i mean i already tested in cheatmods and volks MP40 win pretty reliably... thats without the HE nades of course.. Jump back to quoted post3 Nov 2020, 18:20 PMVipper In addition keep in mind that VG already have an early weapon upgrade and Conscripts do not. isnt that an argument in favor of buffing conscript PPSH? Jump back to quoted post3 Nov 2020, 18:20 PMVipper And try not believe the myths some people like to post, the HE grenade in this case is a nerf, it is not buff. id honestly take an HE grenade over the molotov but thats just an opinion... lastly im fine with volks MP40 as they are... id prefer if conscripts PPSH were buffed to the level of volks MP40 as cons PPSH is underperforming hard In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Conscript PPSH assault package3 Nov 2020, 18:17 PM Jump back to quoted post3 Nov 2020, 18:14 PMVipper My advice stop reading so many post from allied fan boy number one, his post are non constructive mental gymnastics and so is this one. i mean thats moot to what i was trying to say really... all im saying is that theres no reason for cons PPSH to perform as it does at the moment... its completely outclassed by volks MP-40 In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Conscript PPSH assault package3 Nov 2020, 18:12 PM Jump back to quoted post3 Nov 2020, 18:05 PMVipper And that is simply misleading the upgrade goes together with base base squad and it the total that has to be balanced. That is why LMG42 is cheaper than m1919 soo by this logic we balance out the better squad with a less cost efficient upgrade alrighty... volksgrenadiers outclass base conscripts soo in conclusion cons PPSH should cost 30 munitions and give 6x PPSH HE nades and smoke... the better squad has now been given a less cost efficient upgrade... that argument was quite helpful thank you... In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Conscript PPSH assault package3 Nov 2020, 17:28 PM Jump back to quoted post3 Nov 2020, 17:21 PMVipper Not to mention VGs cost more MP. cons PPSH costs more munitions and were comparing the upgrades not the base squad... In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Conscript PPSH assault package3 Nov 2020, 17:12 PM Jump back to quoted post3 Nov 2020, 16:32 PMPip PPSH cons shouldn't be expected to beat Assgrens anyway. Cons still have their snare, and Merge. I think if they had better DPS than Assgrens you're looking at a pretty unfair unit, and Assgrens would basically be a worthless dead-end against SOV (Except for the first few minutes, before you can get the PPSH upgrade, of course). should MP40 volks beat PPSH cons? MP40 volks have HE grenades and smoke on top of having superior combat ability... not to mention MP40 volks are cheaper In: COH2 Balance
Thread: OST clubbing UKF like a baby seal3 Nov 2020, 16:58 PM Jump back to quoted post3 Nov 2020, 14:04 PMJibberJabberJobber snip how are those calculations done? it feels highly dubious to just follow some random score rating without knowing the mathematics underneath... in any case i have also done an average damage per square meter calculation and the T-34 seems to have higher average damage per square meter... granted the much lower scatter and greater far damage of the comet may be the deciding factor as to why it has good rating through the cruzz system though... Jump back to quoted post3 Nov 2020, 15:02 PMSander93 Comparing MG DPS to AOE is rather pointless, because the MG DPS is heavily affected by cover (-50% accuracy) and target size. AOE effectively ignores these (ignoring the 2-6% chance for a direct accuracy hit) but instead is heavily affected by RNG scatter rolls. Both weapons have their own ups and downs in regards to DPS/DPM, but the mechanics behind them lie so far apart that you can't really compare them. that is true... even with even MTTK in open ground an aoe weapon would have variable performance to small arms fire against targets behind terrain or cover... another major factor is the formation the units are in/how packed the target squad is... soo many variables can affect aoe that 100% foolproof comparison against small arms fire is not exactly viable... but what open ground MTTK or some other similar comparison allows us to do at least is to give us a starting point or benchmark for comparison... Jump back to quoted post3 Nov 2020, 13:45 PMHannibal And that is the whole point of my Brummbaer example. Your initial argument was based on OHK and the estimate that 1-2 shots should be enough to kill a single model squad. Brummbär has the same OHK radius at the T34/85. As you said the first shot is not more deadly on a healthy squad that anything else, but the second and third shots are the ones that hit hard because the Brummbaer has a flat AoE curve that retains a lot of damage on the edges. Same thing with the Comet, although not as pronounced. yep i did address it in my second point... have a read the brummbar has much larger aoe/splash to the point where it does can easily exceed 80 per shot... it usually doesnt kill a model in its first shot but 2 shots can easily wipe off 4-5 models off a conscript... thats an average of 180 damage split off 4 models... the 180 figure being 4 to 5 models killed in 2 shots target conscript squad HP per model = 80 HP for 4 models = 320 HP for 5 models = 400 assumed number of shots to kill 4 to 5 models = 2 shots minimum damage per shot (assuming 4 models) = 160 maximum damage per shot (assuming 5 models) = 200 assumed average damage per shot = 180 assumed average damage per 2 shots = 360 in any case all these estimates and rating are really just very rough models... none of these models can replace the accuracy of a well measured mean time to kill in cheatmods and even then mean time to kill itself is subject to variability... an aoe weapon for example will perform much better against densely packed formations but will do significantly less damage against the loose formations... in contrast small arms weapons dont care about formations and are instead affected by target size... anyways ill try to do MTTK with cheat mods a bit later when i get back... In: COH2 Balance
Thread: OST clubbing UKF like a baby seal3 Nov 2020, 13:06 PM Jump back to quoted post3 Nov 2020, 12:27 PMHannibal Plus the scatter means that the T34 will miss more shots. valid point Jump back to quoted post3 Nov 2020, 12:27 PMHannibal Yes, and the T34/85 falls off steeply after the OHK radius to finally 8 damage while the Comet retains 32 at the very outer border. this one is valid too but remember its 1.11 for an OHK radius... this translates to 15% greater OHK radius which gives us a falloff (intercept) radius of 1.33663 to the damage of the comet... while it would still hardly translate to a valid MTTK value its still noteworthy to say that the T-34-85 has comparable AOE... ill admit it has better scatter though... Jump back to quoted post3 Nov 2020, 12:27 PMHannibal MMX has done some theoretical simulations on that but unfortunately the compendium he published does not work with real ingame formations (which is understandable due to the work load) plus it neglects the MG damage (which heavily prolongs the TTK since the MGs can finish off low HP models easily). But judging from that the Comet is about 25% better. do you have a link? id honestly like to see it... Jump back to quoted post3 Nov 2020, 12:27 PMHannibal Taking a single model is quite misleading to draw conclusions from. For wipes as a final shot on retreating squads (that often only have 1-2 models left), maybe, but overall it does not help much. With that calculation I could prove to you that a Brummbaer performs worse than the T34. not really... i assumed aoe would on average splash/damage a model equivalent to 80 damage in around 1 to 2 shots depending on the formation... since by observation it usually takes 1-2 shots to kill 0-1 models at least for the T-34-85 vs something like a grenadier at range 30... the brummbar has much larger aoe/splash to the point where it does can easily exceed 80 per shot... it usually doesnt kill a model in its first shot but 2 shots can easily wipe off 4-5 models off a conscript... thats an average of 180 damage split off 4 models... In: COH2 Balance