You don't get it. If 2 units have equal DPS, the unit doing less suppression will do more dmg.
MG "A" does 1 DPS
MG "B" does 1 DPS.
MG "A" suppresses in 1s
MG "B" suppresses in 4s
Both shoot for 4s.
MG A does 2.5 dmg over 4s. (1 + 0.5x3)
MG B does 4.0 dmg over 4s.
"A" is clearly better, even though it's doing less dmg with the same DPS.
exactly... MG1 has the same DPS as MG2 but MG1 has less suppression... the fact that MG1 is doing more damage is not an advantage but a disadvantage in this case.... |
Read again, i'm not describing an argument. Just stating a fact.
When a unit takes longer to suppress, the damage is not cut down in half. That doesn't mean it's good for an MG to be doing dmg as opposed to be suppressing.
Which is why i said most MGs have similar DPS though the performance in how much dmg they do in avg varies.
yes but if MG1 has the same DPS as MG2 but (MG1) has less suppression the fact that (MG2) doing "less damage" is an advantage as opposed to a disadvantage in this case... |
Try walking up to bar riflemen with assgrens without using sprint. Like I said, shocks are the only cqc squad that can just walk straight up to people. Commandos can sort of do it with stealth, but not really
bar rifles cost more than significantly more assgrens or volk mp40... cons PPSH actually cost more than volk mp40 and doctrinal in contrast to volk stg but will lose on a straight up fight... thats the point im trying to convey...
You have nothing to gain by continuing to talk about winrates. It contributes nothing to the topic of ppshs, and just makes you look more biased. Your taking a small difference and putting a huge weight on it. It's not a valid argument
the only one whose biased here is the person whose saying SOV should get an inferior upgrade... you gave given 0 justifications beyond the "units are balanced by faction" nonsense that can be used to "justify" bad balance... if you want to argue then use some other argument other than this terrible argument... |
I wouldn't say that, given that they are from April-May. Even then this is silly, you say they underperform in team games but then post stats from 1v1
the only thing the soviets got between april-may and now is a nerf... also i mentioned that they underperform outside of teamgames... because in teamgames they can rely on the other player for support during their "weak period"
This has nothing to do with that I said. I said Ppsh cons do not get wrecked by stgs if you use them correctly. Oorah, flank, just don't walk straight at them in the open. They aren't shock troops
soo youre saying that SOV has to outplay OKW every single time with a doctrinal upgrade/unit designed to improve close range firepower? |
Lol you mean your opinion that they underperform. Care to actually qualify that with any facts or specifics? Which game mode? Against what faction/commander?
Anyone who says "this faction is UP/OP" without any nuance should not be taken seriously. 9/10 it's a specific strategy with a faction that overperforms
my take is that they underperform out of team games thanks to that 20 minute period of helplessness the faction faces between enemy weapon upgrades and the T-70...
https://www.coh2.org/topic/105597/1v1-automatch-stats/page/1#post_id822826
granted these winrates arent sufficient to say with absolute certainty that SOV underperforms... but these statistics at least bear weight beyond that of the average "opinion"
They do not get "wrecked" by stgs unless you use them poorly. Imo ostruppen and 5 man grens are OP, so that's not a good measuring stick
STGs are a general purpose upgrade which increases DPS at ALL RANGES... sure it loses to cons PPSH upclose but the advantage of increased firepower at all ranges offsets that... |
What? This has nothing to do with what I just said
"I suggest you actually make an attempt to read what Sander said to you."
For one thing, because balance isn't a matter of "them versus us". Units are balanced on their own, within their respective factions and against the environment in which they operate. This means that there can easily be differences in cost effectiveness between comparable units of different factions/sides.
by that argument cons PPSH should be buffed as SOV is underperforming HARD
Once again this means nothing for ppshs. Ppshs do as well as they should against what they fight against. Your opinion about mp40s has nothing to do with that
they dont... they get wrecked by STGs and MP40s against OKW get wrecked by assgrens as OST and are nowhere near as good as 5 man or ostruppen... |
Once again, you are still asking an irrelevant question. I suggest you actually make an attempt to read what Sander said to you. You are doing balance completely wrong right now
by that argument we should buff cons PPSH even more since SOV is underperforming hard (at least outside of teamgames)
What are you talking about? No one is "not counting" anything. And it's a target size reduction, not damage reduction
ahh yes TR reduction... but thats moot point... volks mp40 is a superior upgrade regardless |
MGs which fail to suppress quickly end up been doing more damage.
I think the difference in DPS ends up been minimal with only the MG34 on the lower end and the Dhska on the higher end.
thats a terrible argument though... DPS isnt the primary job of MGs its suppression |
Because this isn't how balance works, and you're analysis is flawed to begin with. You missed the point, I don't agree that mp40 upgrade completely outclasses it.
then what supposed "advantage" exists for the cons ppsh upgrade then?
Who wins in a 1v1 fight is a terrible way to test the units
of course... but lets not count the smoke grenade HE grenade and the lower cost yes? also theres apparently a DR reduction... lets not count that too |
In what scenario exactly? When they're fighting eachother? That doesnt really represent the way you'll be using them most often, as others have said
the point is why must volk mp40 outclass ppsh conscripts... what possible reason is there for a 60 munition upgrade on the worst infantry ingame to be worse than a 45 munition upgrade for a better (though still bad) infantry squad...
Conscript ppshs are a solid upgrade still. 7 man cons, and svt cons to a lesser extent, have made it less common but they're still good. I use them often in 2v2 when going guard rifle combined arms
again no reason for the axis upgrade to be better...
Not sure if anyone has even mentioned oorah yet, which is a big plus for ppsh cons
id say the (free) smoke nades are an even bigger plus on MP40 volks... smoke nades actually allow you to rush machineguns... oorah`s only real advantage over smoke nades is snaring |
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