Way to miss my point completely, Osttruppen wasnt nerfed instead Defensive was simply made into better Osttruppen.
Also KV-2 changes went under the radar for pretty much everyone, it's fire rate in siege mode went from to 6 to 9, thats a huge nerf.
Nerfing its pen in tank mode you risk making it potentially even worse than prior to rework, considering people would not risk that tank in direct combat with such low pen, meaning it will be stuck in siege mode with firing 50% slower than before.
which is highly welcome. Plus freshly added weaker penetration and 2 cp forward hq - finally this commnader looks like it's in a good spot and gets my full blessing. |
I am all for the KV-2 buffs, but Urban Defense doctrine definitely should NOT get this unit IMO.
I use this doctrine a lot, and I still think KV2 isn't really fair here. The way how this doc works in the live version is that you use the FHQs to throw yourself at the opponent so you block his way to VPs or important resource points, means you aim for a very fast win on VPs (or cuz you or your teammates out-teched the enemy completely). So by the time the enemy destroyed the FHQs, he has to face mines, booby traps, superior teching and teammates who dug in, making it extremely hard to come back for him; all that at the cost of a poor lategame and extremely delayed teching.
But now with KV-2 you have a strong late game as well... I can see people just spamming one FHQ after the other until they call-in a KV-2 without even teching to t3 or t4.
And also... now where the incendiary barrage got removed and booby trap cost got changed to 50, this will just be another doctrine where you float tons of munitions cuz u cant spend it on anything. I suggest reverting the "swap incendiary barrage with KV2" change.
+1 totally agree |
|
Few cents to a German Infantry Commander
1. PanzerShrek upgrade for Stormtroopers with their close combat, stealth style doesn't really works for them. 1 shrek isn't a serious thread to anything and really decrease your AI capabilities to 25%.
Can we consider adding a "AT package" which also with shrek would include posibility to lay shu mines or teller mines and decrease price (of an upgrade) even more to 60 ammo. I mean currently it's not really worth getting option - should be more atractive. Not suggesting any form of AT granade becouse with cammo that could be too deadly.
2. As Smartie suggested before: Can we remove the artillery officer and add a infiltration grenades, flame volks grenade or stun/smoke nades to a doctrine? 2 call in infantry units plus bulster extra model for grens/pio doesn't really fit here (fits the theme but not current composition). Players will spam grens with 5 model and stormtroopers and there won't be any space for the officer
3. Current g43 soldier doesn't transfer the weapon. It's really RNG - it's a lottery if he does die first or last model - which can decide about the fight with enemy infantry squad. Can we make it transferable? |
I just want to say some points, because i saw some comments in the twitch chat.
Yes you get very fast vet3 with this units, BUT the vet does not really care for the flamerhft.
You don't get really strong upgrades for it.
It is always a back and forward: flamerhft is on the field, allies are in trouble. T70 is on the fiel, axis are in trouble.
This is a bad mentality I see in this community. Just because a unit is a strong choice or is favoured in the meta doesn't automatically mean it needs to be nerfed. CoH2 seems to always want to nerf everything that becomes popular into the ground. I think what would instead be better is doing things other than nerfing the potency of the halftrack. There are many other things to do:
- Increase upgrade cost
- Increase upgrade time
- Add a requirement that requires upgrading to the next battlephase (the one that unlocks T3 - this is the requirement for flame HT in coh1)
- Decreasing acceleration on the halftrack (so it dies more easily)
Etc.
Exactly, +1
So unit did really well on a recent GCS2 and now people want to nerf it. Eh, all factions have counter to this unit so don't see the problem.
Unit fits ostroopen strat and mobile defence. Puma will be tied to tech so partly problem is solved |
Sorry for the additional spam but I just wanted to elaborate a bit further.
What I imagined is a lot more simple, the same HQ truck system that the British had in CoH.
Instead of the sWS call in you have in the OKW HQ right now you would have the undeploy ability, which isn't really needed but I'm just saying it for the sake of keeping it nostalgic.
Then next to it you would have the Med, Mech and Panzer HQ sWS call ins.
You would also be able to position them where to deploy when you're ordering them in even before they're on the map, but again, isn't really needed but was an awesome feature to have back in the day.
That would also eliminate the bug where you can call in an sWS after you've deployed all of your structures and allow for a more flexible base system for the OKW, effectively eliminating any complaints about it.
The forward retreat point would also be no longer needed if the HQ can just pack up and move.
Guys, it's really interesting topic, i would love to see those solutions in a mod but it's all quite far away from a feedbacks for commander revamppatch. So maybe move it to the other thread |
I wonder if anyone else is concern about the combination of Heavy/super heavies tanks and auras, it can easily prove to be problematic.
The KV-8 being able to "inspire" PTRS penals can easily creates issues since the buff in their AI might not be big but in their AT DPS it is.
Similarly a Command vehicle Croc support but Piats and heavy sappers can also prove problematic.
Imo these combination need to tested thoroughly before going live.
I totally agree with you in a concept of a commnader design. There shouldn't be ANY commander that can have: a. call-in heavy tank,
b. off map artillery or air strafe,
c. call-in infantry or infantry upgrade
d. buildable artillery like ML20
And that concept is broken by many commanders (mostly soviets and ostheer) like: ISU commander, guard combine arms, lighting war etc.
But as Kirik said - This revamp has diffrent approach and idea to balance commander system so as much as i agree with you - that's how it's gonna go sadly.
Plus i agree with A_Soldier.
Revamped soviet commanders looks a lot of more atractive than other factions especially osheer and okw. They add more fresh and new abilities and units in good combo working in all stages of a game.
|
You clearly haven’t gone up against good players who know how to abuse the shit out of the kv2. A really good example is crossing, you can park a kv2 between the two vps on the shotblocker on ur side of the map and literally cover both vps with siege mode. Lobbing shells over hedges and buildings is much more effective than one would think. The only way to kill it is to dive in, but if the soviets are smart they’ll have mines planted and other AT sources to mop them up. A panther with engine damage is food for a kv2. The jt can use its armor piercing rounds, but actually has to come up all the way to the frontline to do so, and leaves itself vulnerable to pokes. As soon as the kv2 gets hit once, it’ll just unseige and go back to the repair bays. How do I know this? Because I’ve been on the receiving end several times and have dealt it several times as well.
Also your point comparing the pak43 and kv2 makes absolutely no sense, one is an easily destroyed emplacement that gets countered non doctrinally by brits and Americans and countered by the il2bomb run, the other is a mobile unit that can effectively engage tanks AND infantry at long range.
totally agree with everything you said
IT's not like kv-2 will stand there alone just asking to dive. Just remove siege mode and then buff it as much as you want |
I'm still afraid that the changes to the Soviets will pretty much overshadow everything else.
They got a new cool ass and practical unit in the form of the commissar, forward retreat point along with him, a Brit sort of Forward HQ, an improved KV-2 and M42, I mean, what's not to love exactly?
While the Ost just gets buffed StuG Es and 5 man squads and that's about it.
Neither German Infantry nor Defensive Doctrine will be as picked as something with let's say a Tiger in it because it's more useful.
Adding some new practical and useful toys to the Ost like a forward retreat point and let's say the Urban Assault Grenadiers would go a long way in improving the balance and making these picks worthwhile in a match and not occupying the 3rd commander slot just in some extremely rare situation in which you could utilize the Osttruppen and trenches or tank traps.
TL;DR -
Soviets have 2 more very useful commanders while the Ost just gets some let's say, rather small in comparison improvements all around, and I don't think I'm the only one in thinking that, at least I hope so.
And I would like to again take the opportunity make the proposal for Osttruppen to gain an AT rifle package to either replace the MG42 upgrade or be an additional exclusive upgrade that is also locked behind tech and also locks out the Panzerfaust, reason being that they are completely useless at even fending off vehicles while in buildings (which they will most often be in) even with the Panzerfaust being present.
Another thing is the addition of some bunker improves like a Pioneer upgrade and a retreat point for command bunkers, reasons of course being that the Ostheer is the only Army basically handicapped with repairs, they only have their Pioneers to repair with and that's about it, and also no retreat point, which the Soviets will now have in comparison.
+1 |
Also regarding "insanly good KV (too good but that;s for another topic)"
Is this some kind of new meme? Look at KV-2 stats post buff, its still inferior to IS-2 in every single way aside of AI performance which is merely equals ISU but ISU has 30 longer range and can fire those shells without ever needing to use stationary siege mode, which makes it far more responsive to enemy pushes.
Becouse in sage mode it has:
1. range of a elefant
2. can fire behind houses and any other blockers
don't you see any problem here at all? |
Made some tests to Urban Defensive doctrine.
Guys, you represent a balance team so can you explain me and others why is that Forward HQ is so dirty cheap from what it does? Why doesn't it has CP requirement?
Can you imagine how deadly it can be in teamgames especially in certain maps.
It costs only 200 mp 25 fuel (buildable version) or 250mp 40 fuel to transform a house. It buffs near infantry, heal squads, you can reinforce (EVEN when terrytory is decapped).
There is no other forward HQ that is so cheap and gives so much in exchange. Any other faction has to upgrade healing, doesn't get any buffs to nearby units. No other faction can implemented such a strat so early on the battlefield where there isn't serious counter yet. Someone may say "but becouse it comes so early you lack of infantry present on the field". Yes but to kill it i have to get not 1 but at least 2 mortars or isg's to destroy it which also put a player behind in infantry present.
All above brings cancerous gameplay in teamgames which shouldn't be implemented. This commander wasn't used becouse other abilities were really weak. But now with better AT gun, insanly good KV (too good but that;s for another topic).
PLZ take it serious and consider giving it at least 2CP when match will be at stage where axis can pull counters to that stratigic build. Also at least test an upgrade for healing and bonuses to nearby units. |
Relic Entertainment
