Feedback for Commander Revamppatch

Commisar will likely lose its FRP, if it makes it easier for you
Instead squad will (presumably) get tactical nurse squadmember for field healing and maybe some offmap strikes.

Also FRP without way to heal your troops was a stillborn idea, it would make said squad and all of its utility go to waste

Some thoughts about "German Infantry doctrine"

Grenades could be one way to improve the attractiveness of the current version of the doctrine. You could replace "Sprint" or the "Afo" with either

• Model 24 Stun Grenades
  
• Model 24 Grenades of the Assault grenadiers
  
• 3CP - Infiltration Tactics
  
  Would certainly fit well to a "infanry doctrine".
  
  I also would like to ask the "x and o" guys on this forum if stormtroopers could theoretically get a "veteran squad leader" too and if yes, would such a unit be op with current stats?
  If it would still be balanced we would have the option to make this doctrine the only one in which you could get 5-men stormtroopers.
  
  
  Doctrine could look like:
  
• 1 CP: Model 24 Stun Grenades
  
• 2 CP: Veteran squad leader
  
• 2 CP: Stormtroopers (5 model units OR stormtrooper commando unit (Officer with G43))
  
• 4 CP: Sprint (shoud be replaced too)
  
• 10 CP: fragmentaion bombs
  
  Thoughts?
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

I'm a bit on the fence about your idea of adding PzB 39. It's kind of their niche to be cheap infantry, that's somewhat good at fighting other infantry when in cover, capping points and crewing support weapons.

Same with repair bunker thing and forward retreat point. They are indeed the only faction that has none of those, but on the other hand they already have many things that other factions can only get doctrinally, like Command and MG bunkers. I know that asymmetrical balance might feel unfair at times, but it's what makes this game interesting.

Also, I know that theme is always secondary to balance, but it kind of feels right that Ostheer has late war problem of performing "maintenance" and repairs on their vehicles by only having Pioneers do the repairs.

I'm a bit on the fence about your idea of adding PzB 39. It's kind of their niche to be cheap infantry, that's somewhat good at fighting other infantry when in cover, capping points and crewing support weapons.

Same with repair bunker thing and forward retreat point. They are indeed the only faction that has none of those, but on the other hand they already have many things that other factions can only get doctrinally, like Command and MG bunkers. I know that asymmetrical balance might feel unfair at times, but it's what makes this game interesting.

Also, I know that theme is always secondary to balance, but it kind of feels right that Ostheer has late war problem of performing "maintenance" and repairs on their vehicles by only having Pioneers do the repairs.

I agree about the Osttruppen but why did they get the MG42 then? Just gives them a bit more usefulness when garrisoned, that's all, plus they won't have access to the Panzerfaust anymore then like I already said to keep it balanced.

Everybody else seems to have if not exactly a forward reinforcement point then an alternative to it, the Brits have an all in one building basically with their Forward Assembly, the USF have their Ambulance and later combined with the Major makes for a potent makeshift forward reinforce area, the OKW have their med truck, and the Soviets now have a retreat point, even if doctrinal, and a forward HQ as well. I don't think healing is a huge problem for them as well since these commanders will most likely be chosen in team games anyhow, and even if not a simple ability such as med bags for the M5 Halftrack would fix the issue in my opinion.

And lastly, the Ostheer is the mid war German Army, OKW is the late one, that's why you don't see vehicles like the Jagdtiger, KT, Sturmtiger and so on for the Ost but do for the OKW. So technically they should have more resources and manpower if not technological superiority like the OKW.

I agree about the Osttruppen but why did they get the MG42 then? Just gives them a bit more usefulness when garrisoned, that's all, plus they won't have access to the Panzerfaust anymore then like I already said to keep it balanced.

Everybody else seems to have if not exactly a forward reinforcement point then an alternative to it, the Brits have an all in one building basically with their Forward Assembly, the USF have their Ambulance and later combined with the Major makes for a potent makeshift forward reinforce area, the OKW have their med truck, and the Soviets now have a retreat point, even if doctrinal, and a forward HQ as well. I don't think healing is a huge problem for them as well since these commanders will most likely be chosen in team games anyhow, and even if not a simple ability such as med bags for the M5 Halftrack would fix the issue in my opinion.

And lastly, the Ostheer is the mid war German Army, OKW is the late one, that's why you don't see vehicles like the Jagdtiger, KT, Sturmtiger and so on for the Ost but do for the OKW. So technically they should have more resources and manpower if not technological superiority like the OKW.

Well adding a new type of weapon for our osttruppen would be a cool feature. But I am thinking to rather add a Cmd Pz IV so your team weapons get more durable as a replacement for the STUG E, which doesnt fit the defensive theme of the doctrine at all. I mean why do you need a "sturmgeschütz", which translates roughly to stormgun in a defensive tree? I'd rather see a command Panzer IV to buff the defensive stats of the team weapons and osttruppen or a artilerry field officer, to buff the usefulness of the osttruppen.

I want the defensive doctrine to be actualy worth to choose. Why would they consider to rework the defensive doctrine now when they wont make it worthwhile anyways?

Regarding the Ost Infantry doctrine. I actualy prefer the mp40 Storms. I dont understand why 5 Man squads were not able to equip any mgs anymore.

When is the last time yall ever seen a KV2 being very effective in-game?

A better question is when was the last time you seen a KV2 at all?

The changes are fine, it brings the tank up to a reasonable level.

Btw those who complain the KV2 can shoot through terrain so can the Pak 43 and that thing can two shot tanks through a building so I don't think the KV-2 is that much of a problem.

And speaking of the Pak 43, can it get the same treatment the axis heavy tank destroyers get so that they don't two shot mediums? Wouldn't mind if it was a lot tankier as long it doesn't just pretty much instantly gib tanks behind a shot blocker.

You clearly haven’t gone up against good players who know how to abuse the shit out of the kv2. A really good example is crossing, you can park a kv2 between the two vps on the shotblocker on ur side of the map and literally cover both vps with siege mode. Lobbing shells over hedges and buildings is much more effective than one would think. The only way to kill it is to dive in, but if the soviets are smart they’ll have mines planted and other AT sources to mop them up. A panther with engine damage is food for a kv2. The jt can use its armor piercing rounds, but actually has to come up all the way to the frontline to do so, and leaves itself vulnerable to pokes. As soon as the kv2 gets hit once, it’ll just unseige and go back to the repair bays. How do I know this? Because I’ve been on the receiving end several times and have dealt it several times as well.

Also your point comparing the pak43 and kv2 makes absolutely no sense, one is an easily destroyed emplacement that gets countered non doctrinally by brits and Americans and countered by the il2bomb run, the other is a mobile unit that can effectively engage tanks AND infantry at long range.

You clearly haven’t gone up against good players who know how to abuse the shit out of the kv2. A really good example is crossing, you can park a kv2 between the two vps on the shotblocker on ur side of the map and literally cover both vps with siege mode. Lobbing shells over hedges and buildings is much more effective than one would think. The only way to kill it is to dive in, but if the soviets are smart they’ll have mines planted and other AT sources to mop them up. A panther with engine damage is food for a kv2. The jt can use its armor piercing rounds, but actually has to come up all the way to the frontline to do so, and leaves itself vulnerable to pokes. As soon as the kv2 gets hit once, it’ll just unseige and go back to the repair bays. How do I know this? Because I’ve been on the receiving end several times and have dealt it several times as well.

+1

You clearly haven’t gone up against good players who know how to abuse the shit out of the kv2. A really good example is crossing, you can park a kv2 between the two vps on the shotblocker on ur side of the map and literally cover both vps with siege mode. Lobbing shells over hedges and buildings is much more effective than one would think. The only way to kill it is to dive in, but if the soviets are smart they’ll have mines planted and other AT sources to mop them up. A panther with engine damage is food for a kv2. The jt can use its armor piercing rounds, but actually has to come up all the way to the frontline to do so, and leaves itself vulnerable to pokes. As soon as the kv2 gets hit once, it’ll just unseige and go back to the repair bays. How do I know this? Because I’ve been on the receiving end several times and have dealt it several times as well.

Also your point comparing the pak43 and kv2 makes absolutely no sense, one is an easily destroyed emplacement that gets countered non doctrinally by brits and Americans and countered by the il2bomb run, the other is a mobile unit that can effectively engage tanks AND infantry at long range.

Just one question, where have you last seen KV-2 in a in any tournament or top play? If KV-2 was so great I wonder why nobody ever used it and it was considered nothing more but a meme

When something isn't used in top play it means it isn't meta, not bad. Meta is just the most effective usage of resources to get the best outcome. Why would I buy a KV-2 which can potentially wipe squads 1 by 1 when when I can just IL-2 bomb OKWs schwer that instantly forces a surrender? That or it forces them into KT/JT, the former being a joke in the cost/effectivness ratio and the latter being easily wiped by swarm and + mark target. Fortunatly, ultra powerful abilities like mark target, guards, ISU-152, and IL-2 bomb are all in different commanders right? And should never be in the exact same commander..... wait a minute.........

As for what lemon said, +2

I've had an ostheer panther fight against the new KV-2 as well in the mod. With the KV-2 deflection damage, HP pool, and armor it is very difficult to take down. Not to mention to get to it you need to dive. If the KV-2 has any matter of support it will more than likely be able to fend off pushes.

So you're saying its bad that doctrines with KV-2 in it are now more competitive compared to meta doctrines?
Isnt that the whole point of this patch, to make these doctrines more equal to likes of Armored Assault and Mechanized Support to make Soviet roster more diverse?

Is the combined arms ability in mechanized any good? What does it even do? I just don’t know the numbers on the buffs.

The current ideas for the 223 seem to be a bit underwhelming.

It's a slightly worse version of the map wide ability that exists now and overlaps with a vet 1 Kuebel and irHT

How about instead of healing to make it better, give it the ability to sweep for mines (at a slower move speed of course). I think such an idea (of supporting tank thrusts) would thematically fit better with the idea of an elite armour commander.

Just one question, where have you last seen KV-2 in a in any tournament or top play? If KV-2 was so great I wonder why nobody ever used it and it was considered nothing more but a meme

vodka company and silenthit used the kv2 alot when they played the ladder awhile back and they were top10 allied at iirc, i was on the receiving end of it a few times and it was incredibly frustrating to play against. its also somewhat map dependent, requiring well placed shotblockers to work effectively

I dont really get your point, you think KV-2 is too powerful because its siege mode is effective on maps with shot blocks?
Patch barely even toched siege mode, aside of AoE changes all the buffs were for normal KV-2 cannon.
I suppose it is more effective now thanks to new AoE, if thats the case maybe they need to reduce siege mode reload speed, but nerfing baseline KV-2 is pure madness

Regarding the FHQ for the Soviets, I think Axis should be allowed to decap the house like in CoH1. Some houses are very strong and would take forever to damage. The decapping squad cannot fight and maybe increase RA.

Someone mentioned in a stream that it would be great if the recon support paras got the same AT sticky bomb that the Cavalry Riflemen have, as part of their zook upgrade. Which sounds like a really great idea to me, but I asusme that couldn't be added as that's beyond the remit of the patch.

I mean, I’d be content if they just worked as intended with the camo, but that'd be cool too. I feel like it’d be a bit op to be throwing at satchels out of camo though.

I'm saying doctrines should not have things that are all super effective. Everything should just be good enough that other doctrines are viable.

As far as the KV-2 goes, it is now a formidable threat that cannot be easily dealt with for the Axis. Axis don't have mark target in multiple commanders, and the only mark target they do have is a weaker variant and on a unit rather than the commander.

Yeah, I'm not sure why a KV2 needs a buff. It's good as it is. It can penetrate heavy armor regularly which is quite surprising. I'm sure adding the unit to defensive doc is a good idea but also buffing it is over the top.

Since everyone is so obsessed with tournament results, remember the soviets didn't struggle at all and were quite strong. Why the buffs to the kv2?

Is the combined arms ability in mechanized any good? What does it even do? I just don’t know the numbers on the buffs.

Infantry in proximity to friendly vehicles will gain -20% Reload, +30% Accuracy, and +35% sight.
Vehicles in proximity to friendly infantry will gain +35% sight, -30% Reload, and +5 range.

It's actually a rather good ability that's underused/underrated IMO. The interesting thing with Mechanized is that with the halftrack you can pop combined arms and turn it into a swag wagon with infantry inside. Plus the 76 MM Shermans already low reload speed can get buffed to stupid low levels with combined arms active.

I dont really get your point, you think KV-2 is too powerful because its siege mode is effective on maps with shot blocks?
Patch barely even toched siege mode, aside of AoE changes all the buffs were for normal KV-2 cannon.
I suppose it is more effective now thanks to new AoE, if thats the case maybe they need to reduce siege mode reload speed, but nerfing baseline KV-2 is pure madness

the point is that it doesnt need the buffs to mobile mode, when its already so strong in siege mode. the tank itself is already quite viable. the counterplay shouldve been that the kv2 is a strong stationary defensive unit, and becomes vulnerable when on the move to reposition, but instead with the buffs we have a tank that is a turreted brummbar in mobile mode, and then gets a crazy .8 damage buff at vet 3