Feedback for Commander Revamppatch

YoU haVe just dEScRibEd volkS there.

Nope LOL, volks don't scale like an elite 5 men g43 vet 3 grenadier squad that outdps 4 men double bren

Made some tests to Urban Defensive doctrine.

Guys, you represent a balance team so can you explain me and others why is that Forward HQ is so dirty cheap from what it does? Why doesn't it has CP requirement?

Can you imagine how deadly it can be in teamgames especially in certain maps.

It costs only 200 mp 25 fuel (buildable version) or 250mp 40 fuel to transform a house. It buffs near infantry, heal squads, you can reinforce (EVEN when terrytory is decapped).

There is no other forward HQ that is so cheap and gives so much in exchange. Any other faction has to upgrade healing, doesn't get any buffs to nearby units. No other faction can implemented such a strat so early on the battlefield where there isn't serious counter yet. Someone may say "but becouse it comes so early you lack of infantry present on the field". Yes but to kill it i have to get not 1 but at least 2 mortars or isg's to destroy it which also put a player behind in infantry present.

All above brings cancerous gameplay in teamgames which shouldn't be implemented. This commander wasn't used becouse other abilities were really weak. But now with better AT gun, insanly good KV (too good but that;s for another topic).

PLZ take it serious and consider giving it at least 2CP when match will be at stage where axis can pull counters to that stratigic build. Also at least test an upgrade for healing and bonuses to nearby units.

Doctrinal stuff tends to be better than stockline options, that's just how it is.

Made some tests to Urban Defensive doctrine.

Guys, you represent a balance team so can you explain me and others why is that Forward HQ is so dirty cheap from what it does? Why doesn't it has CP requirement?

Can you imagine how deadly it can be in teamgames especially in certain maps.

It costs only 200 mp 25 fuel (buildable version) or 250mp 40 fuel to transform a house. It buffs near infantry, heal squads, you can reinforce (EVEN when terrytory is decapped).

There is no other forward HQ that is so cheap and gives so much in exchange. Any other faction has to upgrade healing, doesn't get any buffs to nearby units. No other faction can implemented such a strat so early on the battlefield where there isn't serious counter yet. Someone may say "but becouse it comes so early you lack of infantry present on the field". Yes but to kill it i have to get not 1 but at least 2 mortars or isg's to destroy it which also put a player behind in infantry present.

All above brings cancerous gameplay in teamgames which shouldn't be implemented. This commander wasn't used becouse other abilities were really weak. But now with better AT gun, insanly good KV (too good but that;s for another topic).

PLZ take it serious and consider giving it at least 2CP when match will be at stage where axis can pull counters to that stratigic build. Also at least test an upgrade for healing and bonuses to nearby units.

Locking it behind 2 CP and changing FHQ cost to 250 MP/100 Munitions and (basically 80% of the cost of Ost command and medic bunkers) is reasonable. Aura could also become activated ability that costs munitions too.

Urban commander does not have much munition sinks after incendiary arty got removed

Made some tests to Urban Defensive doctrine.

Guys, you represent a balance team so can you explain me and others why is that Forward HQ is so dirty cheap from what it does? Why doesn't it has CP requirement?

Can you imagine how deadly it can be in teamgames especially in certain maps.

It costs only 200 mp 25 fuel (buildable version) or 250mp 40 fuel to transform a house. It buffs near infantry, heal squads, you can reinforce (EVEN when terrytory is decapped).

There is no other forward HQ that is so cheap and gives so much in exchange. Any other faction has to upgrade healing, doesn't get any buffs to nearby units. No other faction can implemented such a strat so early on the battlefield where there isn't serious counter yet. Someone may say "but becouse it comes so early you lack of infantry present on the field". Yes but to kill it i have to get not 1 but at least 2 mortars or isg's to destroy it which also put a player behind in infantry present.

All above brings cancerous gameplay in teamgames which shouldn't be implemented. This commander wasn't used becouse other abilities were really weak. But now with better AT gun, insanly good KV (too good but that;s for another topic).

PLZ take it serious and consider giving it at least 2CP when match will be at stage where axis can pull counters to that stratigic build. Also at least test an upgrade for healing and bonuses to nearby units.

+1

Locking it behind 2 CP and changing cost to 250 MP/100 Munitions (basically 80% of the cost of ost command and medic bunkers) is reasonable. Aura could also become activated ability that costs munitions too.

Urban commander does not have much munition sinks after incendiary arty got removed

Considering the enemy needs to specifically build counters to a FHQ (flame HT or 2x indirect fire) which takes time and resources I think it would be disproportionally effective at stalling enemy resources as long as it doesn't cost any fuel. It should be a risk-reward investment: slower teching for a chance to gain considerable map dominance.

Are you saying building two OST bunkers and MG + mortar does not have exactly same effect on Allies?
If FHQ ever loses aura and gets CP requirement then it must also lose fuel cost along with it, otherwise its inferior copy of Ost bunkers and Brit assembly

Hey,
I played today custom 4vs4 and used this doc as well.
After the change that you need to have cap the area, before you can upgrade a house, i personal think its kind of balanced. On some maps you can't go really forward.
Like on the map city 17.
https://www.coh2.org/replay/82771/commander-revamp-match

I gave the other side on a big stoen house a forward hq as well, but it got killed very fast after it. SO have an eye on that too. while rest was fighting right side from me and forward hq.
I went for 3 cons and forward hq. But i had alot of trouble ofc vs mg spam because my mate was brit and not usa or soviet with mortars

When you tech first t2 and then go go forward hq, it is kind of cp1 i guess and flamerhft is way closer on the field.


I played kv2 as well and their burmbär did way better
Maybe I use the kv2 wrong. I often tried to go in the stand hold modus with the kv2, where you can't move anymore.

Feel free to watch the game stark

Also regarding "insanly good KV (too good but that;s for another topic)"

Is this some kind of new meme? Look at KV-2 stats post buff, its still inferior to IS-2 in every single way aside of AI performance which is merely equals ISU but ISU has 30 longer range and can fire those shells without ever needing to use stationary siege mode, which makes it far more responsive to enemy pushes.

Made some tests to Urban Defensive doctrine.

Guys, you represent a balance team so can you explain me and others why is that Forward HQ is so dirty cheap from what it does? Why doesn't it has CP requirement?

Can you imagine how deadly it can be in teamgames especially in certain maps.

It costs only 200 mp 25 fuel (buildable version) or 250mp 40 fuel to transform a house. It buffs near infantry, heal squads, you can reinforce (EVEN when terrytory is decapped).

There is no other forward HQ that is so cheap and gives so much in exchange. Any other faction has to upgrade healing, doesn't get any buffs to nearby units. No other faction can implemented such a strat so early on the battlefield where there isn't serious counter yet. Someone may say "but becouse it comes so early you lack of infantry present on the field". Yes but to kill it i have to get not 1 but at least 2 mortars or isg's to destroy it which also put a player behind in infantry present.

All above brings cancerous gameplay in teamgames which shouldn't be implemented. This commander wasn't used becouse other abilities were really weak. But now with better AT gun, insanly good KV (too good but that;s for another topic).

PLZ take it serious and consider giving it at least 2CP when match will be at stage where axis can pull counters to that stratigic build. Also at least test an upgrade for healing and bonuses to nearby units.

+1

It definitely needs a CP cost for the number of included perks it gives (reinforce, healing, and aura).

Also regarding "insanly good KV (too good but that;s for another topic)"

Is this some kind of new meme? Look at KV-2 stats post buff, its still inferior to IS-2 in every single way aside of AI performance which is merely equals ISU but ISU has 30 longer range and can fire those shells without ever needing to use stationary siege mode, which makes it far more responsive to enemy pushes.

Becouse in sage mode it has:

1. range of a elefant
2. can fire behind houses and any other blockers

don't you see any problem here at all?

Becouse in sage mode it has:

1. range of a elefant
2. can fire behind houses and any other blockers

don't you see any problem here at all?

First of all, its 70 range, its same as ISU and below normal mortar range

Second: siege mode was not buffed in any way aside of AoE profile buff, KV-2 in siege mode behaves exactly as it did before buff, its normal tank mode that recieved buff in commander patch

Third: ISU does it better than KV-2 by virtue of not having to bother with stationary mode at all and by having ballistic speed HE rounds, while KV-2 fires slow projectives which are inaccurate as hell, especially at long range even against static targets

Oh and static shot blockers also affect KV-2 accuracy, its not firing mortar rounds you know? Parking your infantry behind building will cause KV-2 to hit said building.

Second: siege mode was not buffed in any way aside of AoE profie buff, KV-2 in siege mode behaves exactly as it did before buff, its normal tank mode that recieved buff in commander patch

"It wasn't buffed in any way BESIDES this buff that makes it potent vs infantry and team weapons"....nice logic.

This thing is going to be a nightmare to fight in team games; especially on campy maps like Poltawa or Moscow outskirts where it can safely sit behind shot blockers and control a VP.

ISU can be reasonably countered with an Elephant and JT. You'll need to dive for the KV2, which just needs 5 seconds to turn into a decent AT vehicle AND it can give AT Penals low PTRS CD and max sprint to satchel your tanks. Combine that with forward HQ buffs and you got some cancer stew cooking.

You realize KV-2 AoE profile buff was exactly the same thing that happened to ISU and Brummbar? Wider aoe radius but less damage in center of AoE itself, it never meant to turn it into a wipe machine (and it didnt)

Also I'm pretty sure you dont need Elefant/JT to counter KV-2, it literally loses 1v1 against single Panther even after buff it's received, at JT you mentioned before can shoot through shot blockers.

KV2 needs slightly faster bullet speed and it'd be fine with the mod changes.

You realize KV-2 AoE profile buff was exactly the same thing that happened to ISU and Brummbar? Wider aoe radius but less damage in center of AoE itself, it never meant to turn it into a wipe machine (and it didnt)

Also I'm pretty sure you dont need Elefant/JT to counter KV-2, it literally loses 1v1 against single Panther even after buff it's received, at JT you mentioned before can shoot through shot blockers.

Yes, and ISU/Brumbar are very strong units. You're just making my points for me now, thanks. I said Elephant/JT can counter ISU, not KV2.

Won't be discussing with you further until I see a playercard.

Your point: KV-2 is OP because it received same type of buff ISU/Brummbar did, except you can put it behind shot blocks and because of that you cant counter it the same way you counter ISU

Reality: Single OST Panther can destroy KV-2 even in tank mode and JT can shoot through shot blockers KV-2 is hiding behind, making your entire point moot.

When is the last time yall ever seen a KV2 being very effective in-game?

A better question is when was the last time you seen a KV2 at all?

The changes are fine, it brings the tank up to a reasonable level.

Btw those who complain the KV2 can shoot through terrain so can the Pak 43 and that thing can two shot tanks through a building so I don't think the KV-2 is that much of a problem.

And speaking of the Pak 43, can it get the same treatment the axis heavy tank destroyers get so that they don't two shot mediums? Wouldn't mind if it was a lot tankier as long it doesn't just pretty much instantly gib tanks behind a shot blocker.

KV-2 can shoot through "terrain" not shot blockers, it's siege cannon is like leig, meaning it cant really shoot through buildings, it will hit building itself if target near it
This is different from Pak or JT, and thats the point - you can easily wreck KV-2 with JT, contrary to what certain people imply in this thread

I'm still afraid that the changes to the Soviets will pretty much overshadow everything else.

They got a new cool ass and practical unit in the form of the commissar, forward retreat point along with him, a Brit sort of Forward HQ, an improved KV-2 and M42, I mean, what's not to love exactly?

While the Ost just gets buffed StuG Es and 5 man squads and that's about it.

Neither German Infantry nor Defensive Doctrine will be as picked as something with let's say a Tiger in it because it's more useful.

Adding some new practical and useful toys to the Ost like a forward retreat point and let's say the Urban Assault Grenadiers would go a long way in improving the balance and making these picks worthwhile in a match and not occupying the 3rd commander slot just in some extremely rare situation in which you could utilize the Osttruppen and trenches or tank traps.

TL;DR -

Soviets have 2 more very useful commanders while the Ost just gets some let's say, rather small in comparison improvements all around, and I don't think I'm the only one in thinking that, at least I hope so.

And I would like to again take the opportunity make the proposal for Osttruppen to gain an AT rifle package to either replace the MG42 upgrade or be an additional exclusive upgrade that is also locked behind tech and also locks out the Panzerfaust, reason being that they are completely useless at even fending off vehicles while in buildings (which they will most often be in) even with the Panzerfaust being present.

Another thing is the addition of some bunker improves like a Pioneer upgrade and a retreat point for command bunkers, reasons of course being that the Ostheer is the only Army basically handicapped with repairs, they only have their Pioneers to repair with and that's about it, and also no retreat point, which the Soviets will now have in comparison.