What's even funnier about tommies is even in green cover sturms can charge them across open ground and win.
Sturms are strange aswell, they are luck dependent when they are charging to close range.
Sometimes they can even charge rifles in cover lose 45-50% HP but have all models alive and beat rifles. Sometimes one model get sniped on approach and sturms will lose. |
How many tests did you run?
About like 5 to 6 times, they are still depens on RNG and how much models decide to shoot at other squad single model.
Mid\close range is the worst, in general IS are lossing.
But again, when it comes to inf combat, you cant test it like that, because in real game noone would stay out of cover in a open field, 1v1ning full HP squads untill a wipe.
My point was that IS are still more or less are on pair with other mainline inf out of cover, they are not hands down worst then everything else in non-preferable environment. |
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After testing it with cheat mod.
4 men IS out of cover:
Against grens
Long range - win (2-3 models alive for IS)
Mid range - win\lose (RNG dependant)
Close range - lose (3-4 Grens model alive)
Against volks:
Long range - win (3-4 models alive for IS)
Mid range - lose (1\2 models alive for volks)
Close range - lose (2\3 models alive for volks)
So while out of cover is not preferable scenario for them, you can really say that they are useless or suffers too much out of cover.
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Exactly, that's how to the units like Avre or Sturms. It is not designed as a flanking unit and it does not have the panther or comet flanking strengths.
Yeah except, not all maps are essentially straight lines. Sturm need to turn in 99% scenarios if its not pre-placed, which effetively increase its firing time by additional few seconds. With AVRE you can either use turret to not expose youself or just turn it (because turning speed is fast enough).
You can use AVRE offensively or defensively. Sturmtiger is only somewhat usable in defence and still gives worst AOE and damage results then AVRE.
There is litteraly no way or opproach to say that Sturm and AVRE are equal, AVRE is simply better unit across the board.
Sturm would have been alright unit with all its gimmicks untouched if it simply had better AOE then AVRE. But its AOE is not only worst then AVRE one, its just in general bad even without comparison. |
You couldn't be any more wrong, the AVRE is deffo not a unit that is easy to flank with. Retreating units outspeed it. Even if it flanked successfully, it wouldn't be able to retreat alive.
Hm? His frontal and rear armor provide more then enouth protection to reliably tank anything but AT\TD tanks, its accel and deccel gives him his max speed in about ~1 second + he has crit repair with vet 3.
Its not panther or comet like easy to flank with but its not hard to flank with AVRE, but honestly you dont even have to. You can just fast drive forward shoot and drive back. For extra safety you can even use stock smoke on IS.
Its sturmtiger, who need pre-panning, pre-placing, pre-aiming and other shenanigans to make at least some use of it. |
And it can't be rebalanced within realistic terms either. It has gotten a lot of QoL buffs lately and it's good enough for casual play now. ... Similar to a unit like the B4, it will just never be competitive due to its nature.
B4 and AVRE can be used competitively, maybe not in 1v1 and not in super top play, but both units are in meta somewhat. But sturm as you point out is a casual unit which realistically is useless against players who know how the game works.
And there is nothing about "relic scope", I belive that there is no more "scope".
I honestly dont know how and on which conditions balance team works, but sturmtiger was nerfed across the board, AVRE wasnt, even considering the fact that AVRE was always better then sturm in its role.
If balance team wanted Sturm to be more forgining and not deleating armies from the game by 1 click, thats why they left him with this AOE profile, then it also should have been applyed to AVRE. |
ST can easily go to :
Overwatch
Special Operation
Breakthrough
Scavenger
Feuestrum
Then the unit can be re-balanced...
I honestly dont think that it should go anywhere.
Because it has no place in any other doctrine. Its just need a normal AOE profile, which should be at least a bit better then AVRE one, considering all the drawbacks. Even its AOE penetration could be nerfed, one can care less how much penetration it deals to the tanks.
Or optionally AVRE should be on Sturmtiger level of perfomance. But in this case we would have 2 shitty units to play with.
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also Sturmtiger need to lower it speed to match the AVRE ,it's a f**ing Tiger 1 chassis with 14x 380mm (350kg. each round) total weight almost same as Tiger 2.
Its already slower in general then AVRE, it takes it almost x2 time to reach its maximum speed then it takes AVRE. Meaning if you stoped ones you lose your maximum speed. |
There's nothing wrong with units not being an excel carbon copy of one another. They both fit within their roles, roaster and faction in their own unique way. I see more SturmTigers than Avre, despite Avre having better Excel-Sheet stats.
Depends on what gamemode you play. If you play 4v4\3v3 with OKW full house you will see it more often then AVRE simply because doctrine comes with the only way OKW can boost their economy and usefull early game LV.
AVRE is being a unit which can make a change, while ST is being a unit which is a gamble.
I understand that ST should have been placed somewhere, because he existed, but aside from meme or luck factor it has no other uses. What the point of having such unit in a first place?
It might not be carbon copy, but it shouldnt be worst at littery everything while being treated as a
exact carbon copy you've mentioned or at least on pair unit with its ups and downs. Otherwise it wouldn't have had same timings and cost. |
I am not sure either what you intend to do with the thread, the two units are different, they have different stats and different ways of playing it. What is exactly the balance problem you want to point out?
I want to point out, that one of the units while being "scary" when you dont know how it works, being inferrior to its counter part in pretty much every way if you combine all pros and cons. |
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