One can be paired with stock super heavy, other can't.
One is supposed to sit in combat for longer time, other is supposed to take a pot shot and retreat.
Neither should be in game.
Well removing them from the game is good but not possible option. I would rather in this case see it not being pared with KT but not being garbage, then being a garbage which can be pared with KT.
Also its dabatable that he is suppose to sit longer in combat, since hes is frontal armor can somewhat tank mediums, but not meta TDs, so in general at very best its on pair with AVRE in terms of how long it should stay on the front line.
Why a thread in balance section if you don't want to talk any balance changes? That belongs to lobby or gameplay.
I want to but honestly after reading some of your posts or the usuall manner that you answer ppl, it feels like you are not here to discuss but to troll. Appologies if I'm mistaken.
Are you trying to say something and forgot to do it?
Because so far there is nothing in this thread to warrant any kind of balance discussion.
Different units have different stats is all this thread says and that isn't a balance forum place.
I think guy with 15k posts should have a basic understanding but alright.
AVRE and Sturmtiger are units with relativly save role, same price and same timings.
AVRE by the stats is better pretty much at everything which is related to its role. ST is being better only pretty much at AOE penetration, it deals 140 more damage (which is not enouth to even kill medium) and can sustain 2 more hits but with far inferior armor
While:
1) Lacks turret
2) Shoot slower
3) Have slower movement
4) Vulnerable while reloading
5) Has weaker AOE (Against inf that is)
While again, costing the same and arriving at the same time.
Also if you want to hear, something like "nerf AVRE" or "Buff Sturmtiger", you wont hear it from me, so provoke someone else.
Yeah, except if you put them in a match and compare the performance of 7man shrek cons and 5man LMG42 Grens vs PIATs 5man Tommies and BRENs 5man Tommies, the former are better.
Yeah, the only sad thing that we dont have 7 shrek cons by the 7 minite mark and we dont have 5 men LMG42 grens in the game.
Regarding obersts aurgument:
1) They still requre T3 unlock for 60 fuel to get access to LMG
2) If you rush them, you are left without healing for good. And as OKW you need it, aswell as you need sometimes puma or stuka
3) They will always face somewhat upgraded and vetted inf
4) They are not main-line inf, they are support inf, which always requare somesort of baby sitting to be effective.
Thats why we see JLI or Falls all the time, because obers are not miracle unit, which makes OKW inf play on pair. They are somewhat addition to your army, which can make a difference only in long run.
OKW tech is messed up for good, there is nothing more stupid to compair OKW tech prices to other factions, because OKW tech is by far the most unflexable in the game. You go T1 - you are left without hard counters to LVs, you go T2 - you are left without healing, you rush T3 for obersts - you left without backtech for a long time.
Regarding bolster:
IS already can face and be on top of volks and grens, bolster with its timings just adds to it.
If you look at USF, Rifles power are at least justified by the fact they dont have anything else early on.
Thats the sole reason why IS spam is the UKF meta, you dont need Vekers or bren carrier, they are just an option you can get, but IS can face everything but ost sniper early on.
This AI supperioriry snowballing into bolster, making IS even better, then get AEC to instanly counter fast LVs, and continue dominating with ISs.
Bolster and even double weapon upgrades are more or less fine as an idea, but their timings are just stupidly fast. Bolster at very least should be at least locked to AEC or bofors upgrade.
I usually see questions like
"Why grens such" with and answer "Because you have acces to best MG in the game and sniper early"
"Why rifles are so powerfull early" - "Because they have nothing else early"
What about UKF then? Why the combine arms faction turned into second USF.
Its just need somesort of disadvantage which would make it on pair with other TDs either price\moving acc\small range nerf or anything really. AT gun\zooks can get ajustments if they are underperforming.
And in the end of a day USF is the strongest AI faction in the game, with the best stock TD in the game.
I'd say irrelevant is an exaggeration (it almost sounds like a Jackson could not die), otherwise the change to lower Jackson's armor would not have been discussed so much and no one would have cared. Still it made it from a vivid discussion to an actual patch.
The change is not about 1v1-ing a Jackson with a P4 or something, but about diving already damaged ones.
Problem is that other TDs (Jaghtpanzer\Su85\Firefly) can be punished effectively with mediums, two of them lack turrent and fireflys low fire rate makes them un-effective when being flanked.
Jackson on the other hand dont have any disadvantages of mentioned TDs, it has mobility, it has turret and it has relatively fast fire rate + all the benifits of TDs. Making it the most effective TD in the game which is effective against both medium and heavy targets in all possible scenarios.
In my experience, you either need to damage jackson at least 2 times to be able to have decent chances of killing it with P4.
Not to mention moving penalties, while having 100% of penetrate is nice, you still have rather big chances to miss on the move, and you will be moving since Jackson would try to escape.
In a vacuum armor reduction doesnt feel like its gonna to change much, in reality the only way to counter jackson effectively is to damage it to half HP with other AT sources and finish it off with a fast attack of medium, not to mention there could be possible support for it.
I would rather consider lowering its HP to sustain 1 hit less. Because in all honesty, jackson is already easy to penetrate, and you wont be 1v1ing full HP jackson with or without armor nerf with P4, even if it got hitted ones, its still very risky.
Eg. OKW in Lienne forest (forest side), is much stronger than US or Soviets, while much weaker on open spaces IN early game.
I disagree, OKW is somewhat stronger IF they deside to get another SP squad, while they will be stronger initially nothing stops Sov to go cons build and mass them before attacking focusing down pios squads, US can go for ass.egnis and UKF can go for assault tommy.
This is pretty much what this thread about. How verstile factions and how they in general can react to enemy builds\moves.
Seems like a good idea. As you said at the moment building the Centaur is basically only a good idea if you desperately need AA. Cromwell only comes a few seconds later and is the better overall tank with it's mobility.
As I already said in a previos thread, USF\UKF upped mainline inf are powerhouses in AI, thats why they dont need AI tank support early on and its better to go with the somewhat decent AI of cromwell but get AT with it.
You dont need centaur as a first tank early on, but it still has it place later, for example its better get centaur as a second tank if enemy is blobing or running around with schrecks blobs.
Problem with axis mostly comes from the fact that pretty much both ost and okw can be abused by meta.
OKW
OKW suffers the most in early game, because of the light vehicles all 3 allies faction can get. As they are "suppose" to be late game faction, with superior vet and somewhat armor their early game at best on pair with other factions, but drops drastically if they are being abused by vehicles.
While on paper you can get a raketen, it heavily relies on opponent missplay and lack of 1 additional volk squad or (god forbits) delay in tech, can snowball into even bigger problems later on.
Not even gonna mention snipers and problems with fighing garrisoned teamweapons.
----- Ost
Ost on the other hand again have the same issue, but in a different way. T1 is in general feels kinda strange. Grenadiers effectiveness is heavily rely on support and positioning.
Realistically in the same conditions, they can 1v1 only cons in all other encounters they would need at least some sort of the support.
On the one hand they are being second cheapest inf in the game, first one is being cons (because they don't require building). But at the same time I belive that grens are actually the most expensive mainline inf in the game, simply because you either need an MG (260 MP), pio squad (200MP) or another grenadier (240 MP) to have an even ground with tommy or rifles early on.
All of this forces ost to play defensively early on and here comes the question - Why would I want to stick with grens (non-5 men), if at the same time I can skip t1, play defensively with MG and Pio and then get T2.
And as ost you need T2 anyway with or without T1 (since it has all main AI\AT units), so if you are not want to play with sniper or a commander which rely on T1, it's just not worth it.
--- Sov
Allies have their own problems and have to face cheese from axis aswell. But again, allies in general have much less of "I just need to survive past X moment, to conteact", while axis early to mid game is full of it.
As was mentioned before, I agree that soviets are in general the weakest allied faction in the game. T34\76 is honestly AI tank, and its AT capabilities end up with ram+off map, while SU-85 is cool TD, it's still for me the weakest, because of lack of the turret, but also because of the rest of the army supporting it.
And here comes main difference is the inf play, while british and USF can literally can be running terminators later on with brens\m19\bars being viable and powerfull, cons without ppsh or svts will be loosing, penals are generally meh past mid game. The only salvation are titanium shocktroops, but even they will drop later on if focused.
USF\UKF can stick to inf+TD play, because their inf don't really need AI tank support. They are effective by themself, unlike soviets.
--- USF\Brit
Cant say much about them, because I'm still learning how to play as them and make a mistakes sometimes.
But in general USF being the most powerfull early game faction is also being the most punishing for mistakes one, because few wrong moves may lead to loss of this advange, and without early game advantage they will go downhill very fast.
Brits badly rely on timings and unit awareness. Also on meta. Untill mid game, you really have to do everything by the paper and in time in order to not get cached up without pants.
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