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General Power of Factions in 1v1

17 Jul 2020, 12:21 PM
#21
avatar of elchino7
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Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



And if you can isolate that faction based on logical arguments, where take into account everything (mathematically possible, humanly impossible), you'll be a bona fide genius.


You are over estimating how easy is to spot a broken faction/commander.

Not like it is the case right now but we have plenty of patches were one or 2 factions were dominant.


Someone has to be the best or worst overall faction. Whether is based purely on W/L ratio or accessibility. That on it's own is fine, the problem is when the gap between the top and the bottom is too big.

17 Jul 2020, 13:25 PM
#22
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1515



You are over estimating how easy is to spot a broken faction/commander.

Not like it is the case right now but we have plenty of patches were one or 2 factions were dominant.


Someone has to be the best or worst overall faction. Whether is based purely on W/L ratio or accessibility. That on it's own is fine, the problem is when the gap between the top and the bottom is too big.



Agreed that it is possible to spot a broken unit. However, as much as some people would like it to be, there are no broken units atm.
Broken units are easy to spot and should be balanced instantly. A lot of people also call synergies broken so I'm inclined to mute out such people.
Eg. OKW in Lienne forest (forest side), is much stronger than US or Soviets, while much weaker on open spaces IN early game. Most of the game is "you win some you lose some", and while most people accept it and move on, some really like to grind the turd down the alley and scream "OP/UP THIS/THAT"
17 Jul 2020, 15:12 PM
#23
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1


Eg. OKW in Lienne forest (forest side), is much stronger than US or Soviets, while much weaker on open spaces IN early game.


I disagree, OKW is somewhat stronger IF they deside to get another SP squad, while they will be stronger initially nothing stops Sov to go cons build and mass them before attacking focusing down pios squads, US can go for ass.egnis and UKF can go for assault tommy.

This is pretty much what this thread about. How verstile factions and how they in general can react to enemy builds\moves.
17 Jul 2020, 15:24 PM
#24
avatar of Leo251

Posts: 311

I absolutely agree with the OP when he says the OST is good or competent ONLY when the player decide to go to Ostruppen, AssGrens or 5men Gren squads. Only in that cases the faction is competent.
Otherwise, it is the weakest faction.

So, the problem with OST is the lack of a durable mainline infantry, and the lack of LV.
17 Jul 2020, 21:00 PM
#25
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

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jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jul 2020, 15:24 PMLeo251
I absolutely agree with the OP when he says the OST is good or competent ONLY when the player decide to go to Ostruppen, AssGrens or 5men Gren squads. Only in that cases the faction is competent.
Otherwise, it is the weakest faction.

So, the problem with OST is the lack of a durable mainline infantry, and the lack of LV.


+100

This point needs to be repeated again and again. Just because winrates look decent doesn't mean the faction is fine. Ost is literally crutching hard on stock gren avoidance.
17 Jul 2020, 21:05 PM
#26
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

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I demand the moderators to expose those that voted UKF as weakest faction.
17 Jul 2020, 21:27 PM
#27
avatar of elchino7
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Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

I demand the moderators to expose those that voted UKF as weakest faction.


Ask Janne. We don't have that power.
18 Jul 2020, 05:46 AM
#28
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289

Ahh incindiary dictator is back. Not only with entitlements but with demands as vet 1 abillity.
18 Jul 2020, 10:31 AM
#29
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1515



+100

This point needs to be repeated again and again. Just because winrates look decent doesn't mean the faction is fine. Ost is literally crutching hard on stock gren avoidance.



JuSt BEcaUSe ThE WiNRaTe LoOkS DeCeNT DoESNt MEaN tHe faCTiOn iS fINe....

Really? Holy moly you're delusional
18 Jul 2020, 16:12 PM
#30
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

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JuSt BEcaUSe ThE WiNRaTe LoOkS DeCeNT DoESNt MEaN tHe faCTiOn iS fINe....

Really? Holy moly you're delusional


Tell that to the delusional people that think Ostruppen is OP because high level 1v1 meta is Ostruppen therefore Ostruppen OP yet Ostruppen hasn't been changed in years. If you'd like the list of names of people who said that Ostruppen OP, I'd be happy to share that with u, however sharing that information in public will trigger the moderators.

Allied logic says whatever is a popular unit for Ost means that unit is OP.
18 Jul 2020, 16:15 PM
#31
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

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Ahh incindiary dictator is back. Not only with entitlements but with demands as vet 1 abillity.


I was always here. I don't post willy nilly. My unofficial job is to keep the forums at a respectable IQ level for all members.
18 Jul 2020, 16:15 PM
#32
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



Tell that to the delusional people that think Ostruppen is OP because high level 1v1 meta is Ostruppen therefore Ostruppen OP yet Ostruppen hasn't been changed in years. If you'd like the list of names of people who said that Ostruppen OP, I'd be happy to share that with u, however sharing that information in public will trigger the moderators.

Allied logic says whatever is a popular unit for Ost means that unit is OP.

Speaking of delusional, its not osttruppen or AGs that are op here, its the T2 LV rush they allow, which is also allowed by T0 PGs.

Chain of factors.
Remove 10 fu cost from T0, add 10 fu to BP1 and you will see osttruppen meta just pop out of existence instantly.

But how would you know? You're as clueless as ever.
18 Jul 2020, 16:18 PM
#33
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

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jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jul 2020, 16:15 PMKatitof

Speaking of delusional, its not osttruppen or AGs that are op here, its the T2 LV rush they allow, which is also allowed by T0 PGs.


Katitof do u still stand by the statement u made a few months back about Flamer HT being OP despite it receiving THREE nerfs and ZERO buffs during its lifetime?

So now PG timing is OP too?

The WHOLE POINT of Ostruppen doc is to be oppressive early game. Both ostruppen docs have no late game strength.
18 Jul 2020, 16:24 PM
#34
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



Katitof do u still stand by the statement u made a few months back about Flamer HT being OP despite it receiving THREE nerfs and ZERO buffs during its lifetime?


Do you stand by your statement you constnatly repeat that brits are op despite getting nerf after nerf after nerf for years with exclusively valentine being raised out of irrelevance hell and tommies being so overnerfed they had to be buffed again to compete?

So now PG timing is OP too?

That is opinion of one of the balance modders, couple of high ranking players and mine, yes.

The WHOLE POINT of Ostruppen doc is to be oppressive early game. Both ostruppen docs have no late game strength.

And you still will be able to do it, just won't benefit from more fuel T1 skip allows without sacrificing utility as T2 unlocks fausts now too instead of just T1, only from extra resource provided by improved map control, like it was always meant to be.


As I have said, chain of factors, not any particular single unit or thing regardless of how many autists try to swing it one or other way.
18 Jul 2020, 16:26 PM
#35
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1515



Tell that to the delusional people that think Ostruppen is OP because high level 1v1 meta is Ostruppen therefore Ostruppen OP yet Ostruppen hasn't been changed in years. If you'd like the list of names of people who said that Ostruppen OP, I'd be happy to share that with u, however sharing that information in public will trigger the moderators.

Allied logic says whatever is a popular unit for Ost means that unit is OP.


Ostruppen are not OP. They are situationally good. But this is not about ostruppen. This is about your statement that OST is weakest faction. I mean I don't plan to argue here so whatever.
18 Jul 2020, 16:29 PM
#36
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



I was always here. I don't post willy nilly. My unofficial job is to keep the forums at a respectable IQ level for all members.

We need to review your performance.
18 Jul 2020, 16:29 PM
#37
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

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Ostruppen are not OP. They are situationally good. But this is not about ostruppen. This is about your statement that OST is weakest faction. I mean I don't plan to argue here so whatever.


They are the weakest faction if you don't use Ostruppen, agrens or 5man grens.
18 Jul 2020, 16:35 PM
#38
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

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jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jul 2020, 16:24 PMKatitof


Do you stand by your statement you constnatly repeat that brits are op despite getting nerf after nerf after nerf for years with exclusively valentine being raised out of irrelevance hell and tommies being so overnerfed they had to be buffed again to compete?


That is opinion of one of the balance modders, couple of high ranking players and mine, yes.


And you still will be able to do it, just won't benefit from more fuel T1 skip allows without sacrificing utility as T2 unlocks fausts now too instead of just T1, only from extra resource provided by improved map control, like it was always meant to be.


As I have said, chain of factors, not any particular single unit or thing regardless of how many autists try to swing it one or other way.


Sections are still OP. Even after the bolster timing "nerf" which is essentially a fake nerf (how do we nerf sections without ACTUALLY nerfing sections.) Nobody said PG timing OP until Ostruppen was made popular by high level meta recently. Yes PG timing WHEN USING OSTRUPPEN may be oppressive but that the whole point of the doctrine. And it's not like every Ost player has the skills to use Ostruppen. If the balance team nerfs PG timing just cuz of ostruppen, while doing NOTHING to make stock grens viable after powercreep from riflemen/officers and over-the-top section buffs..... just shows that the attitude of the majority of players is that Ost is NOT ALLOWED TO WIN.
18 Jul 2020, 16:37 PM
#39
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

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We need to review your performance.


I'd be flattered if you actually took the time for an in-depth performance review.
18 Jul 2020, 16:54 PM
#40
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

snip

Thank you for providing hard evidence of being not only delusional, but also clueless.
Why are you talking about this issue again? You are as qualified on it as I am on on teaching CN how to play the game.


I was always here. I don't post willy nilly. My unofficial job is to keep the forums at a respectable IQ level for all members.

I agree with that, but I also think you should put the shovel down now.
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