That is the thing. Ost heavy and superheavy tanks are gutted, and no longer applies. While Allies TD function get progressive stronger on vet, which makes late game ost really bad, lost on the infantry front and now the tanks.
If we do a simple 50% front + 50% rear armor for total, you get today, and you see why Ost drops off late game. The armor buff at vet2 only bring them closer with Allies heavy. Hence one suggestion is to give panther some AP rounds at vet1. And probably can afford only 1 panther in 1v1 or 2v2, unless you dont care enough to cap against allies superior infantry.
Elefant 255
ISU 247.5
Brumbar 182.5
BrumbarV2 207
KV8 202.50
Churchill 210
Croc/Avre 235
IS2 257.50
Tiger 220
Panther 175
PantherV2 192.50
Pershing 205
Comet 200
KV1 217.50
KV2 240
I use coh2 db for my stats. It seems up to date mostly. The panther armour rating is higher then you say on that site. 260 according to coh2db. To my knolidge panthers still can bounce of the su85 frontaly. If the panther has 175 armour it should always penetrate.
The panther also has simaler pen as the allied tds, it has a turret is fast and mobile, has heavy crush and at least has ai. Only the range is a real downside.
You also did not list the king tiger. It has more armour then the is2. And its non doc and imo has a better gun.the su85 jackson and ff are meant to be able to halt it or force it off.
And the supirior allied infantry is much more expensive to get to max level or are locked in commander and still cost more.
Again this is according to coh2db. If the stats i stated are wrong please feel free to correct me. |
I think Ost tanks dont scale as well as allies. Allies TD get stronger in their TD role on vet. The higher hp and armor arent really 'higher' now, considering higher repair times, first shot advantages, 100% pen from (rear)sides, and 100% pen everywhere on vet, fast snares.
Besides, it is the Allies call in tanks and Churchill have overly strong armor and hp for Ost to deal with now.
Usf mortar was the fastest reload and still the fastest and the most accurate(less scatter), thats ridculous.. Ost mortar has slightly faster aim time for first shot, thats about it. Katsuya, Brit base arty and Usf scott/pakhowie are better at decrewing Ost weapon teams.
Imo I wont say Ost weapon teams are clearly better than allies counterparts. Brit have a fast position ATG, Usf have turbo ATG. Allies Mg have higher dps, Maxim is harder to decrew, vickers have slightly better sight, 50cal is deadly. etc and the likes.
I think the problem Ost have is late games, tanks dont scale as well, takes up a bit more resources for their state of performance, infantry support teams are squishy for the price.
I dont think is the micro, but how unforgiving if you make a mistake or your opponent one-up you once.
Allied td,s get stronger in their td role because axis have more acces to heavy and superheavy tanks. Axis tanks get more hp or armour or both with vet. No allied tank gets that.
The ost mortar did fire 2 to 3 times as fast. 2 times until about a year ago when mortar rof was brought closer together. Katty is about saturation, its really luck if it wipes a wpn crew.
Allied mg,s may have higher dps but are more likely to eat nades because of lower supression. Maxim is easy to dercrew because of deathloop. In a lot of situations that a maxims get wiped the mg42 almost always escapes.
I think ost team weapons are solid. Yes they are squishy but excel at their job.
Ost always had squishy squads that didnt change, their early game did not suck as hard as sov and usf late game did before. soviets and usf went from sucking hard to being viable late game. Soviets did suck early game and late game at one point. No more paper tanks/tds shooting blanks. No more rngesus inf from soviets.
That imo is the main reason ost appears to struglle now. |
Wehr problem is pop cap and heavy resource need. These were ok previously when their units are stronger. Right now, their units are not any better than allies, so you have squishy units and expensive tanks cost.
So for wehr you need to get p4 fast, dominate every early infantry encounter with no mistake, like stay at range, reposition mg asap, have pak asap. Have a lucky teller to disable T70 or Sherman. A single mistake and you have no comeback chance. Since allies survivability means they can grind away the longer you fail to take a strong lead.
Wehr has become a very unforgiving faction to play.
Their tanks still have more hp and armour mostly. They just dont get to bounce so many shots anymore. The prices of the mediums are pretty close so they should preform pretty simaler as well.
Their support weapons are still better then most direct counter parts from the allies.
Their td and pak dont get 100% stun anymore. Stopping any flank instantly. The ost mortar does not fire 2 to 3 times faster then other mortars anymore. Wich was quite redicoules imo.
Ost had its required micro increased over time. Inf and weapon teams need to support eachother a bit more then before. Their tanks cant yolo in and bounce most if not all at rounds and escape 90% of the time with next to no damage suffered anymore.
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these changes REINFORCE their existing role that they were not meeting. they are not supposed to be usf riflemen, they are something else. they are support. a 7 man con squad will be able to fully recrew an mg or pak or mortar without losing a squad, that alone is HUGE. wiping an mg42 and instantly have a 6 man squad on it? additionally they will reinforce for cheaper. that shouldnt need additional explanation... you want the 8upgrade to remake the conscript, thats not what its doing. its making them better at what they are supposed to do. they will defend longer and reinforce cheaper and merge more efficiently. they are bodies to mold into what you need on the battlefield. they will keep your fighting infantry on the field, they will build you sandbags, deny you cover, snare you tanks. all the things they do now, but with less bleed and more firepower. im not sure what you are against here.
cons are supposed to always be useful no matter what you use them to support- and thats the key here, THEY are the support, not the other units. they are supposed to be the heart of your army, but not the star. they make everything else shine.
+1000
Could mot have worded it better myself.
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The line of sight is 35 on the mg42 as well as the maxim. Maybe you mean the firing sector? |
There is no denying in the fact that Osteehr does somewhat suffer heavily under mortar or arty pretty heavily in contrast to other factions.
SU has way better chances of sustaining fire and arty in my experiences in the game. More forgiving in that sense. It is rather unfortunate that SU dont really have non-doc AI upgrades for infantry.
Maybe "Oraah ability" should be revamped, like boost performance (inspiration morale boost), shoots faster and reload faster. Create Aggression even defensive play. Move slower. Lasts 5 sec for 15 ammo maybe. That would make it more interesting although it is an ability.
Maybe the Explosive resistance is not the best resolution. Even Suggesting anything about improving the survivability seems already a bad resolution for many. Do not know why exactly that is a huge issue. What is your resolution to Grens or wehrmachts survivability?
I suggested another new upgrade for Grens having an "extra man" at the cost of not being able to equip MG42 (sacrificing firepower in the process). That seemed like a fair prospect which somehow many seemed to have disagreed upon. Looks like there is no sympathy towards this idea.
Mortars are mostly standardized now. Arty esp sov arty is a rng fest atm. So if killed by arty is unlucky atm imo. On the arty front you cant do much really, other wise why bother with arty if it cant break up the enemy. Su 82mm mortar is the best example of this.
Them main survivability issue is double equiped ukf/usf main lines with their nades and 5 models. They need nerfing a long side with volks and penals. I believe this will improve the grens survivabity a lot and keep it balanced.
Soviet by design can take a lot of fire, but they face a lot more fire power. A p4 quite often kills 3 conscripts in 1 shot and fires faster then the t34. A t34/t70 usually kills only one but quickly get the next model. The rifle and bundle can completly wreck 6 men. Molly doesnt and stachel gives ages to avoid.
I do applaud you for being creative with solutions to problems even while i disagree. Cheers mate. |
S mines are predictable and now that good of AI because of that. Teller mines are great.
Limited to 4 man. It is a good idea for them to get explosive resistance. SU hardly uses ammo in comparison. SU can spam mines everywhere if they wanted to. 1 mine, retreat. Try to continue with 2 guys left, hit another mine, squad wiped.
Less damage for SU vehicles would be ridiculous. They have good vehicles. Osteehr has the weakest light vehicles. Every factions has vehciles with pros and cons.
Sov can plant mines every where if they want. Yes that true. But they dont garantee wipes unlike ost mines. Loosing a light vehicle to a single 50 muni mine is much much more impactfull then loosing a squad wich cost mostly less then the lv on a 90 muni demo. Even more for a supercharged demo. And yet the demo got nerfed out of excistance.
As for soviet not using as much ammo. They dont have non doc ai upgrades. Like you said pro,s and cons. But just get minisweepers and your good. Vs mine spam.
The 2 model cap already is a buff to 4 men squads. Adding explosive resistance will make it possible to have no models dying on hitting a mine.thats the only outcome of such a buff.
The part about sov vehicles needing at resistance was a joke. Because givinng ost explosive resistance is as well. Sov vehicles do fine. Cons struglle late game just as grenadiers do. Both have doctrinal option to counter act weaknesses. Its just a fact of the game. |
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Ost is defensive. Meaning relying more on static play with inf and weapon teams. Arty is a counter to that kind of play. Ost should be more suceptible to this.
If you want more survivable inf go inf doc. Just like sov has to do for weapon upgrades.
2 su mines can garatee a wipe? Ost S mines can as well. The teller does garatee a wipe on a light vehicle.
Where ost has weaker inf in terms of ehp Sov have weaker armour and health on their vehicles. Wich makes them suffer from at weapons and mines more then ost.
I think the sov non doc vehicles should recieve less damage from any at source because of how weak their armour and hp are.
I dont think giving explosive resistance is a good idea. |
Buff suppression and decrease crew to either 5 man or 4 man. Depending on how much better the suppression of Maxim is.
I usually use Maxim and it is good. The only thing currently compensating is for its damage output which is much better than Axis MG, specifically damage output.
I still think however that a suppression increase is necessary but I would believe that it would require to decrease the size of the crew in order to make that happen for balancing!
As long as the deathloop isent fixed, no way in hell does it justify the crew number being lowered.
Right now its supression allows it to be naded frontaly way to often. The deathloop allows it to be wiped really easy. That is 2 problems vs 1 advantidge. Even 6 men cant keep it from being wiped less then a 4 men crew.
Not being able to be frontaly naded nearly all the time will lessen the impact from the deathloop. Reliable supression is neccesary, its dps does nit seem to high to me. Mg42 seems to have higher dps, but because it supresses faster its dps seems to be low. Not 100% sure but it seems that way to me. |
Are you still living in 2017? Both Panthers are 185 fuel nowadays.
Ok thanks for the correction i didnt remember that. |
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