Eastern Front Armies Revamp

kv1 aility its decent i like the new change. but i dont get is this thing supposed to shoot faster or slowere it says faster in game

The Forward Headquarters is a very risky commander, if you removed the aura - add a point of retreat, because now there is no sense in keeping this headquarters on the front line

"The goal of our Conscript changes are to:
Allow Conscripts to scale well with their upgrades
Give vetted Conscripts a fighting chance against similar-cost upgunned infantry (at specific ranges), without unbalancing the early game
Make Conscripts more reliable as a defensive infantry (e.g., by trading damage for accuracy)"

1) Reduce Target Size to 1 adjust veterancy bonus if needed
Reason: it will improve merge.

2) Tone down the accuracy buffs but replace vet 1 ability with a timed ability that increases accuracy. Ability cost Mu and can only be used when in cover or garrison.
Reason: it will solidify Conscripts as defensive infantry and stop annoying spamming of tripwires.

3) Remove ourah from Conscripts. Replace molotov with a normal grenade increase AT range.
Reason: again solidifies conscripts as defensive infantry.
Alternatively:
Ouarh become an ability that scales with veterancy having defensive penalties at Vet0 that progressively diminish


4) Replace PPsh upgrade with SVT upgrade.
Reason: The combination of PPsh and improved mosin will make full entities Conscripts too good at all ranges while the will drop off long range DPS dramatically when start losing entities making their performance inconstant.
Alternative:
PPsh upgrade stay but gives 6 PPsh and ourah. DPS will have to go down a bit.
Reason the upgrade now change the role of the unit to purely offensive one.

5) Consider a Target size bonus similar to Tommies when in cover.
Reason: Solidifies them as defensive unit.

6) Change the near range of the Mosin to 10-15 so it's DPS no longer improves significantly at very close range.
Reason: This change should apply to all long range weapons (as bolt action/lmg) so that sorter range weapon should get a advantage they closer they move (which is not the case currently).

7) Merge now reduces the entities to 1. Consider merge providing a small amount of heal (5HP?)
Reason: Removes the chance of accidental loss of squad, second change increase utility.

"M-42
We are giving a number of buffs to the M-42. With added utility of camouflage, garrisoning and higher penetration at shorter ranges combined with higher damage, the M-42 should make for an excellent early anti-tank gun that can deal some damage to heavier armour when attacking up close from stealth.

-Increase damage to 100
-Penetration increased from 100/80/60 to 160/100/80 (Puma-ish)
-Popcap to 5
-Non-doctrinal access to AT ambush
-Can now garrison buildings"

Imo these changes are in the wrong direction and unrealistic (especially the garrison part). Creating a Puppen clone is not the way to go.

M-42 is light AT gun and it should perform as such. Imo a clearly defined role for the unit would be a hard counter to light vehicles.

Changes should aim to create a unit able to counter fast moving vehicles and should/could include:
Large arc
Fast rotation
high accuracy
low times before starting to fire
maybe better sight radius

I don't agree with the delays on smoke and scopes. most of all the smoke. Also con molli throw time needs to be reverted, you throw them super fast at vet2 poor grens have hardly any time to fire mg42. I'd like to see mollis impact dam get buffed a bit and see how that goes. punishing you for not moving seems fair

Here's hoping Relic allows lots of testing of these changes - all of 'em.

Good changes and ideas, I like them. I do however have some points!

The IS2 and Panther now both have better damage, but they still miss too often if you ask me, especially the Panther. The Panther still can't hit the broadside of a barn from the inside. What are your thoughts on this issue?

The buffs for the conscripts are wonderful, finally! But you keep penals roughly the same, only changing their veterancy speed and their ptrs damage. Isn't this dangerous since you now have effective and good conscripts and effective and very good penals. This will make a very deadly combo with the new maxim I fear.

I have a suggestion for the Soviet Heavy Mortar. Why not make it so that they can't survive when they hit one model and retreat. Why not simply remove that annoying feature and keep them at 6 men? Just asking, still like the change.

As for the Elefant nerfs, I don't know man, it feels like it won't fulfill its intended role anymore. The damage is nerfed and its pop cap is increased. There is no price reduction or slight increased rate of fire or slight increased accuracy to compensate? The thing is bloody expensive and now it is less effective vs mediums as you intended, but also vs the heavies it is supposed to fight. The increased pop cap will hamper you from getting more units to support it too.

The changes to the stuka dive bomb aren't clear to me. You remove its critical hit modifier and then you give it more aoe. Doesn't this like buff it? Any plans on giving more visual warnings for this ability? The sound can simply not appear when action is going on.

The Panzer tactician smoke nerf seems very excessive. This means you can't use it effectively since by the time it is active your tank will most likely be dead. You can't use it aggressively either, so it will not be a fully defensive ability that comes after 2,5 seconds and means that you can't rely on it. The USF sherman has the same issue here but can use it offensively to some degrees.

The scope nerfs are decent, but why not make it a toggle ability? This toggle ability could punish the vehicle with slower (turning)speed and acceleration. Add a delay of 1.5 seconds or something. This would work well with the Ostheer Panther since it has to stand still to hit anything anyway. Would work well with the stug and elefant too.


As for the other changes: Really really good! Can't wait to use more KV1s now!

Can you explain how making the Pwerfer fire faster make it less punishing for the defender? Removing suppression doesn't make that much difference since all the rockets land at the same time anyways. I thought the suppression was a good way of using it as a an anti blob counter for the Wehrmacht which they definitely needed.

The moment a squad gets hit by a rocket, it gets insta-pinned. Then you lose control. The moment you lose control of a squad that's going to get hit by 9 other rockets, you have a dead squad.

Can you explain your changes to the elephant? You nerfed it's dmg and "increased its AI and AT utility". So you added the armor detection to it which seems fair, but what exactly is the HE barrage? Is it a toggle between the AP and HE rounds like ISU? And how will this change its performance against heavy tanks? Will it require extra shots to take down heavies? It already misses very often against medium tanks to begin with.

It's a powerful SU76-like barrage with low accuracy but big-enough radius that can go through all world objects.

So how does this work with slot weapons? the squad gets -43% received accuracy buff, but the gun (ppsh, ptrs, etc.) gets a 43% accuracy debuff? or is it something else?

Every gun that Conscripts pick up suffers from a -43% accuracy nerf. This is why we gave Conscript doctrinal weapons a bit better accuracy (to compensate this passive thing).

This is to solve easily-avoidable things like LMG conscripts, etc.

Demo charges
Stun and forced retreat seems unnecessary. Suppression, if anything would be more appropriate.

Suppression, unfortunately, causes serious issues with weapon teams.

Moreover, a suppression debuff increases the defense of the affected squad.

The goal of demos should be to use them to soften up a squad and follow up with your troops to finish it off. Pinning increases the defenses of the squad by 10x.

M3A1 Scout Car
I dunno, beefing it up like that just seems like asking for problems. Especially with how late OKW's panzerfaust is atm.

This is an OKW problem.

We will deal with OKW problems when the mod becomes EFA + OKW.

Guards Troops
Drop rate from 0.1 to 0.33...? Why not just revert them to prepatch performance, and then implement the slot_item purchasing changes?

PTRS -was- reverted to prepatch performance

Pak40 TWP
Definitely worth testing. May I suggest working the TWP shot to (maybe only) stop the tank in its tracks when it hits, forcing it to start moving again from a standstill? Sort of a thematic counter to Ram. But a tank at a standstill is the prime benefit of TWP.

Sorta like reduce speed to 0.1 for 0.125 seconds? That could be an idea.

We could try. We wanted to add a small QoL change to make TWP easier to aim, but that takes time to add.

Command P4 aura
I guess. At the same time supporting a teammate with an aura really shouldn't be discouraged IMO. I feel like there's got to be a solution to auras. If anything, perhaps a unique bonus for teammates that's straightforward and minor?

-5% RA for teammates?

The thing with a damage resistance aura is that it, really, lets your tanks survive an extra shot (which is a lot, given that tanks require 4 shots to go down), or your infantry survive grenades.

Panther
Interesting. I still feel like it needed an accuracy boost more than a damage boost. It's armor is what WOULD make it a particularly strong adversary for heavies, but it can't hit the broadside of a barn.

Stock accuracy boost could be a thing.

Moving accuracy boost is a no-go. The Panther is already a low-micro unit; we don't want to encourage run-and-gun type of play.

The Brummbar nerf might let anti-tank guns live long enough to do something against it.

They won't. The minor scatter nerf is there to offset the projectile QoL changes.

The only thing that sticks out as questionable is the change of manpower for fuel on the ML-20 and B4. This change will probably make sure that it is never built again. The biggest problem with the ML-20 and B4 is the stuka dive bomb wiping it. The price increase on the dive bomb might help, but probably not.

The price of the stuka-dive bomb brings it in line with other one-click-wipe abilities; IL-2 bombing run, fragmentation bomb, railway artillery etc. If those abilities continue to cause issues to howitzers, we can just increase their cost and give them some bonus (e.g., extra radius to stuka, more shells for the other abilities, etc).

Howitzers are supposed to be the main late-game attraction for most of the doctrines that have them. In the late-game you are usually lacking manpower; not fuel. You will never have 600MP to rebuilt a howitzer. Therefore your doctrine's late-game potential gets trashed.

I can't understand how you came up with the idea that spotting scopes and panzer tactician require usage delays. The spotting will be completely useless on the tanks with fixed turrets since they they have to move to face the enemy. The panzer tactician has always been used as a purely defensive tool to get tanks out of tough situations and could be countered with attack ground, now they are useless. By the time you need them they will come too late.

Panzer tactician is a no-micro get-out-of-jail free card. Just like USF decrewing their vehicles is not instant (to prevent target acquisitioning abuse), the same should be the case for instant smoke.

Spotting scopes bestow a massive 70-range sight bonus. Other factions get at most 50-range scout units. This is massive, and it's not something you should be able to use offensively (e.g., by using the stop-hitting trick to glide your shots).

The change will bring spotting scopes a bit more in-line with self-debuffing abilities (e.g., focus sight).

As for turretless tanks, you can now use the handbrake on them, to prevent rotation and keep full benefit of the scopes.

Also disagree with cost increase when no tech is built, it should be NO CALLINS AT ALL. Make them affect all factions and boom, no more callin cancer meta.

If you completely remove the option for call-ins in the game, why would people ever pick call-in-related call-ins? Everybody would just spam Lightning War/Jaeger Light Infantry doctrine. That's because off-maps will require no tech.

Essentially players' preferences will shift from company of call-ins to company of off-maps.

The new call-in mechanism still allows for comebacks with proper play. However, you can no longer abuse call-ins and win (hopefully).

Oh and TWP for stug and pak40 are now useless with half dmg. Should remain at 160 for what they do.

Having debuff abilities that cause the full damage plus guaranteed penetration vs all armour types begs for them to be spammed. As per the other issues, we do not like low-micro no-brainer abilities.

I kind of disagree with the way you guys buff Cons, it's now excessively complex with 43% accuracy debuff when? On slot items? On just vet 0? What? I agree with normalizing DPS, but not slapping on a accuracy debuff unless you guys show that Cons actually go magically worse on vet 0 with items.

On slot items, at all vet levels, starting from vet0. This is similar to the ostruppen debuff.

Conscripts are supposed to be untrained troops (at Vet0) that acquire veterancy on the battlefield and become a high-utility infantry unit. To achieve this effect we had to pile a few extra veterancy bonuses on Conscripts.

Given how bonuses work in the game that makes Conscripts completely OP when they pick up LMGs (even in the live version).

Since we are piling additional vet bonuses on Conscripts, we feel that it was about time we fixed that.

Partisans are still useless past their infil role, so a received accuracy decrease would be appropriate and ability to upgrade weapons immediately after spawning and from anywhere on the map regardless of owned territory.

The intention is that partisans should upgrade weapons anywhere on the map. If it requires own territory, then that's a bug. Sorry!

Feel free to suggest scaling changes for partisans.

The Forward Headquarters is a very risky commander, if you removed the aura - add a point of retreat, because now there is no sense in keeping this headquarters on the front line

FRP are a no-micro design that only encourages blobbing. We might be seeing less of FRPs in the mod, but definitely not more of them!

In our first pass over EFA we, at least, tried to make every single commander ability useful and balanced. In a future pass, we can look at some of the truly unviable commanders (hey, NKVD is kinda decent now with planes fix) and give them a different mix of abilities.

The buffs for the conscripts are wonderful, finally! But you keep penals roughly the same, only changing their veterancy speed and their ptrs damage. Isn't this dangerous since you now have effective and good conscripts and effective and very good penals. This will make a very deadly combo with the new maxim I fear.

To have the kind of scenario you're suggesting you need to build T1 AND T2 AND build a ton of each unit. That's kind of unrealistic. Our goal with conscripts is design them in a way that they will require some help from either T1 or T2 or elites to get their vet rolling.

We haven't had the chance to evaluate Penals properly yet. This is because:
- Everybody plays OKW
- Nobody plays Soviets
- Everybody plays Lend-Lease

As for the Elefant nerfs, I don't know man, it feels like it won't fulfill its intended role anymore. The damage is nerfed and its pop cap is increased. There is no price reduction or slight increased rate of fire or slight increased accuracy to compensate? The thing is bloody expensive and now it is less effective vs mediums as you intended, but also vs the heavies it is supposed to fight. The increased pop cap will hamper you from getting more units to support it too.

The barrage is supposed to provide a light-howitzer-like feel for the Elefant. Thus, if the enemy doesn't go tanks, you still have something to show for your popcap.

At the moment we don't know how strong/weak the barrage is. Currently it fires as many shells as the SU76, but with a much bigger AoE.

The changes to the stuka dive bomb aren't clear to me. You remove its critical hit modifier and then you give it more aoe. Doesn't this like buff it? Any plans on giving more visual warnings for this ability? The sound can simply not appear when action is going on.

It's a straight nerf.

Stuka dive bomb used to kill all infantry units within 15 radius. With the changes the OHK radius is reduced dramatically. Since we don't want to have a useless ability on our hands, we increase the damage it deals to affected infantry units.

The scope nerfs are decent, but why not make it a toggle ability? This toggle ability could punish the vehicle with slower (turning)speed and acceleration. Add a delay of 1.5 seconds or something. This would work well with the Ostheer Panther since it has to stand still to hit anything anyway. Would work well with the stug and elefant too.

That could be an idea. Our goal with the delay was to emulate the turning rate penalties other units receive.

The problem with what you propose, however, is that we need to find a suitable slot to place the ability that will be the same for all vehicles. We already had issues doing this for handbrake

I'll try to investigate.

General changes

Call-ins
Call-ins cost +25% more resources to summon if the appropriate tech has not been researched

Soviets
All call-in tanks (and heavies) -> T4

Ostheer
Stugs, Pumas -> BP 2
Command PIV -> T3
Tiger, Tiger Ace, Elephant -> T4

Imo the changes to calling should be a bit different so that the minimize the difference in CP/Economy across modes.

1) All call in units are priced as units with tech cost.
2) All call in units can also be built for a small premium from appropriate building
3) units can also be instantly called in for big premium if appropriate CP is reached
4) call in units receive a discount the more tech building are built.

These changes will:
as mentioned before help the CP/economy across factions
promote teching
Penalize player using call in commander for losing buildings
Help better balance unit since one will be able to build them at almost original cost

-Vet3: Reduced Received accuracy modifier modifier from 0.6 to 0.707 (Writing errors)
-PM-42 where reduced crew from 6 to 5 ?? (Writing errors)
-Title: SU76 should be SU76/SU85. But there are no changes in the su85 (Writing errors)


1.IMO call-ins WEHR too much variety to request. New players and their implementation is very confusing due to its variety.

2.-Added randomized visual randomization in the hull. What does it mean?

3a.Mark target. Effects dissipate immediately if sturmovik spotter gets shot down.
3b.OST Supply drop. Supply plans now fly over enemy base and are counter able to convert resources.

Allied planes will always be at a disadvantage to the axis that can easily be down.
Currently in teamgames is a train of planes throwing supplies (Minor cooldown Supply drop).



Before any official patch is always above. Good job.

MIrageFla

Add function to HMG - when out of combat for 10 sec - autoreload

M-42

-Increase damage to 100
-Penetration increased from 100/80/60 to 160/100/80 (Puma-ish)
-Popcap to 5
-Non-doctrinal access to AT ambush
-Can now garrison buildings

M-42 need more mobility (setup/rotation) instead of firepower and ability to garrison buildings

KV-1
We are experimenting with giving KV-1 more health to assist with its meatshield role.

-Added a 0.8333333 received damage multiplier (effectively increases health from 800 to 960)

Current KV-1 is ok, but it costs too much. It costs more than SU-85, but it's slightly more efficient than T-34.

I am very excited.
Is it likely relic will allow another community patch?

And two more remarks:
- Lend-Lease Guard should come without M5, I do not need so much M5
- ISU-152 A high-explosive projectile should have the same speed as Armor-piercing

MIrageFla

Add function to HMG - when out of combat for 10 sec - autoreload

You would piss people off who become in combat at 10 seconds then because their MG was reloading not firing

In our first pass over EFA we, at least, tried to make every single commander ability useful and balanced. In a future pass, we can look at some of the truly unviable commanders (hey, NKVD is kinda decent now with planes fix) and give them a different mix of abilities.

Seriously - there's no point in this commander now. Previously, he rewarded for aggressive actions, and it was very difficult to implement: because conscripts - suck and you do not build tiers. Now, the FQ is a heal and reinforcement - it can be destroyed with a single grenade (wooden house), it is still specific and suitable only on city maps. So that the retreat point is a necessary compensation for aura loss.

For both armies, howitzers still need to be more resilient to off-maps and repair speeds need to be improved.

Thoughts just on Ostheer changes:

PG Mark Target ability isn't useful except vs. tanks. Would prefer a more general ability considering PGs can be both anti-infantry and anti-tank.

TWP 80 damage nerf basically moves the ability into the dustbin imo. Nobody's going to exchange another shot to kill a tank for a temporary blinding effect.

StuG should go to 10pop but get a health buff to 640 (improves survivability vs. certain tank destroyers)

Elefant nerf is ill-conceived. Even with the HE barrage deal, it's still going to be a unit called in to deal with tanks. Except now it's significantly worse at that. Now I'd rather just have a Tiger. Also, tbh I never thought this unit was overpowered. The Jagdtiger, on the other hand, definitely is.

Panther changes don't solve the main problem. It performs fine against heavies but sucks against mediums. The new damage increase makes it more effective against heavies but doesn't help it much against mediums. Keep it at 160 and improve rate-of-fire instead.

Command Panzer IV change is a nerf to teamwork. I agree this thing can be overpowered, but this isn't the right approach.

As for the Elefant nerfs, I don't know man, it feels like it won't fulfill its intended role anymore. The damage is nerfed and its pop cap is increased. There is no price reduction or slight increased rate of fire or slight increased accuracy to compensate? The thing is bloody expensive and now it is less effective vs mediums as you intended, but also vs the heavies it is supposed to fight. The increased pop cap will hamper you from getting more units to support it too.

If you do the math, it actually takes the same amount of shots to kill all tanks other than mediums with 640hp. Even the Churchill still only takes 5 shots to kill. However, you never really do 1v1 these tanks anyways so it's still a big nerf to the elephant which I really don't think deserved it.

I've played a couple games, will make observations on those when i'm confident in my impressions.

Some things I've observed outside actual gameplay (i.e. using cheatcommands)

Elefant HE barrage is extremely strong. I'd say even with the direct damage nerf to the gun this constitutes a buff to the unit. Long aim time, but full 70 range, no vet requirement, and low cost- tested it and it wiped a zis and destroyed the gun, in one barrage, at max range. I like the direction behind this change - makes less a zero or hero unit now it has a lot of utility. Cannot attest to actual balance.

ISU deflection is bugged - on deflection off target that it should kill, it reduces HP to zero instead. The next shot, ofc, kills the target. I think this is similar to a bug with handheld AT weapons that emerged a little while ago. Regardless, the effect of this change together with the arcing shells (a major nerf considering the wipe potential of the unit before) has probably realigned it as more anti-tank / anti-team weapon than anti-inf (this is not necessarily a bad thing imo).

Demo charge
We are changing the way demo charges perform. Rather than guarantee a squad wipe, demo charges can now be used to secure flanks, deal a high amount of damage and force squads to retreat.

-Removed death crit vs infantry
-Now deals 33% damage vs infantry
-Friendly-fire damage to 100%
-AoE distance changed from 2/4/6 to 1 / 2.1 / 6
-Now stuns the squad for 5 secs - squad retreats afterwards (also affects team weapons)
-Muni cost to 60
-Fixed an issue where planting a demo would force the squad to move a certain distance away (therefore, cancelling all queued commands)
(affects all factions)

Suggested changes:
1) make demo a vet 1 ability or an ability that improves with veterancy.
Reason: less spam-able becomes available a bit later.


2) Allow units with minesweepers to disable it from a distance.
Reason: even is detected engineering need to go in harms way to defuse it. They need to be able to defuse without being in danger

3) Make the detonation smaller if it explodes by being hit.
Reason: it help dealing with it more easily