The imbalance between Allied and Axis Infantry Anti-tank

This. I don't want to see bazooka blobs either but there's room to buff them. Two zooks on a rifle squad makes them fairly meh against infantry anyway.

Bazookas are better equipped on a support squad, so it won't undermine your rifle's at-inf capabilities.

In regard of balance with the Us faction, We should not forget that they can go over popcap easily by getting the driver out of their mobile units, call a easy8 they get back into those units. That feature is a must to actually have a edge with the US.

That never comes into play into any sort of competitive match and has absolutely nothing to do with their lack of infantry AT. In fact I have no idea why you would bring that up in a thread about infantry AT.

That never comes into play into any sort of competitive match and has absolutely nothing to do with their lack of infantry AT. In fact I have no idea why you would bring that up in a thread about infantry AT.

I bring it because it's a US faction advantage. It help to have more tanks and/or more zooks squads vs the shrecks blatant superiority.

If you don't use it, it's you problem. I see this used in many high ranking matchs where theUS faction is involved. It's rather easy to use, if you plan in advance.

However, i still think that the Axis are more powerful than Allies in 3vs3 or 4vs4.

Thanks.

Why not give Volks different upgradeable antitank weapon? Some antitank rifle more in line with allied handheld antitank weapons. Schrecks upgrade for them is really a no-brainer and I don't personally think blobbing up cheap infantry against decent medium tanks should be a viable tactic. Ofcourse there should be adjustments for puppchen to compensate. Schrecks on panzergrens are fine IMO.

Why not give Volks different upgradeable antitank weapon? Some antitank rifle more in line with allied handheld antitank weapons. Schrecks upgrade for them is really a no-brainer and I don't personally think blobbing up cheap infantry against decent medium tanks should be a viable tactic. Ofcourse there should be adjustments for puppchen to compensate. Schrecks on panzergrens are fine IMO.

I'm leaning towards reducing panzerschreck accuracy at range.

Pak40: Dmg 160 Pene: 210/200/190/Reload: 3.5-4.1 Range:60
Zis-3: Dmg 160 Pene: 200/190/180/Reload: 4.425 Range: 60
Raketen: Dmg 160 Pene: 200/190/180/Reload: 3.0-3.6 Range: 50

As you can see the only difference between the Zis-3 and Raketenwerfer is Zis has 10 more range and 2 extra men but Raketen fires faster. I also think raketen doesn't get auto green cover but they can garrison buildings and retreat.

How would you like to alter the raketen?

How about further increasing the reload time on Schrecks, keeping their shock value.

Bringing Zooks on par with Schrecks in terms of penetration.

Lastly up penetration on now zook level and rate of fire for ptrs, so it increases their damage against vehicles and do something about guards beeing a pinata after dp upgrade.

Finally!

This has been a major problem since CoH2's release.

Shreks have a much too short reload time IMO, accuracy at range could also be decreased. That would discourage charging with blobs, for high DPS even vs fleeing tanks. I like the high aplha damage with good pen.

Bazookas could be improved a bit, a bit cheaper would go quite some way, maybe a bit higer pen.

AT guns seem ok to me, raketen aint great but good enough.

AT guns should be the real tank snipers. this has been done on vcoh, not sure why relic brought it along to coh2.

similarly for zooks, give it dps to match schrecks and lower its cost, but keep its awful penetration and nerf its long range accuracy, it should take rear hits to deal with heavy tanks. given USF jacksons, they need a solid close range AT to deter incoming tanks.

it makes complete balance sense that a medium tank should demolish a shreck squad at range, not run away from it. there's more investment involved plus the role of medium tanks is mainly AI and some defense against other aggressive mediums.

buff rakaten aim time, nerf schreck effective range to medium short. im fine with that 100% penetration.

If bazooka remains unchanged, its only worth of 40 munitions.. For 60 muni it should be similar to Panzerschrek.

i wouldn't get bazooka unless it's free. just thought of wasting two garands or even one garand for that non penetrating, non accurate, non threatening piece of crap makes me sick.

A possible solution to make them more useful would be to equalise the damage between Shreks and Bazookas, while retaining the Bazooka's lower penetration. Both handheld AT weapons should be a bit inaccurate at maximum range, of course, I'm not sure how Zookas are at range currently but Shreks are a bit too accurate.

It sort of annoys me that the idea of pushing for medium tanks to take advantage of "stall for heavies" that Axis does so much in team games is so trivial to punish because of Pschreck blobs. Even the more costly allied mediums fall victim to them and USF doesn't even get heavies.

>:3

I would still keep shrek damage high, if I'm not mistaken that was one of it's strengths. The bazooka could use a 20 point damage increase, still less damage per rocket than shrek, but more useful. The price could also come down a bit as well.

"asymmetric" balance only kind of exists at the moment there are so many units that out perform their opponents similar unit, for example a B4 and ML-20 outperform the Lefh at the moment although the lefh has a faster rate of fire from what I can see, and then there is the bazooka vs panzershrek argument, then the tank vs tank for any number of tanks. at the moment axis do have the bigger end of the stick in that they have more units that perform better e.g. panzershrek and pak-40.

I'm leaning towards reducing panzerschreck accuracy at range.

Pak40: Dmg 160 Pene: 210/200/190/Reload: 3.5-4.1 Range:60
Zis-3: Dmg 160 Pene: 200/190/180/Reload: 4.425 Range: 60
Raketen: Dmg 160 Pene: 200/190/180/Reload: 3.0-3.6 Range: 50

As you can see the only difference between the Zis-3 and Raketenwerfer is Zis has 10 more range and 2 extra men but Raketen fires faster. I also think raketen doesn't get auto green cover but they can garrison buildings and retreat.

How would you like to alter the raketen?

You're not looking at all the numbers. The Raketenwerfer has an aim time of 1 - 1.5 second. The aim time of all other AT Guns is 0.125, almost instant.The Raketenwerfer waits 8 to 12 times longer before firing than other AT Guns.

AT guns should be the real tank snipers. this has been done on vcoh, not sure why relic brought it along to coh2.

similarly for zooks, give it dps to match schrecks and lower its cost, but keep its awful penetration and nerf its long range accuracy

1. What's that supposed to mean?
2. That'd just make it more RNG.

i wouldn't get bazooka unless it's free. just thought of wasting two garands or even one garand for that non penetrating, non accurate, non threatening piece of crap makes me sick.

Maybe Bazooka + M1 Carbine (airborne variant) to lessen the DPS penalty?

why even mention the raketen? We all know it's super broken. I'm surprised it's lasted this long being so shitty. Then again, the 57mm might as well be in the same, considering it bounces off most things you would aim it at.

why even mention the raketen? We all know it's super broken. I'm surprised it's lasted this long being so shitty. Then again, the 57mm might as well be in the same, considering it bounces off most things you would aim it at.

It hasn't been mentioned more often because the volk's Pschreks have been so good that there is hardly a reason to build it. It really only needs it's aim-time reduced. There is no reason for it to be so long when it already has less range then it's peers.

The problem remains that Schrecks are too powerful, and Axis would stand on its own two legs without Schrecks just fine.

I have my share of doubt regarding Ostheer in that matter. Weakest early game, hard transition to mid game relying on paks / pgrens to counter armor until the real potency of the faction comes online. I guess nobody wants the weakest 1v1 faction nerfed again because of OKW.

I have my share of doubt regarding Ostheer in that matter. Weakest early game, hard transition to mid game relying on paks / pgrens to counter armor until the real potency of the faction comes online. I guess nobody wants the weakest 1v1 faction nerfed again because of OKW.

But do 1v1 Ost players really use PzGr squads that much, let alone for AT? I barely see any people build them in 4v4

I think that the game is so complex that when comparing 2 weapons or features, you simply can't take into account all factors that influence them.

Ok, the analysis is founded, but then, giving the ostheer vehicles and tanks prices, the okw resources handicap, with WHAT should Axis respond to allied medium armor rush? I think we can all agree that a T34 can hit the field before PZ IV does and that an allied player can pump more shermans then an axis player Pumas. Pak 40 saw its ROF lowered, raketenwerfer is hilarious when it comes of its AT capabilities.

So I think the analysis should not only state "hey, schrecks are better than zookas, and allied armor is to weak for them" but should wonder "why is that?". And maybe the conclusion will be: "because they need to". More than this, the zooka and schreck scatter was nerfed.

related to AT hand held weapons, in my view, there are only 2 things that need to be changed:
1. increase PTRS penetration;
2. increase zookas damage while letting their damage still slightly lower than schrecks damage.

*Anyway, zookas and schrecks are a start-game / middle game matter. The thing that is affecting the meta and may create inbalance on some maps is the thikness of Axis supertanks, the start game and middle game is still dominated by Allied, even if Axis have better hand held AT weapons. So nerfing these weapons won't bring any good I think.

Why are you always crying for equality ? The axis handheld AT may be better, but you should compare all parts of a match.
In the early game you have a huge advantage as USF. Rifles are very strong and you can put a wehr player in a really bad spot with fast nades or fast m20.
Even in coh1 you were not supposed to kill heavy armor with shrecks. You'd rather get some combined arms with atguns and inf supp.
And we don't even talk about jackson.
In a 1v1 situation they are extrem strong and in 2v2's etc you can just get a train and rape all the armor from distance. And don't say they would get countered by schrecks. How about supporting tanks with ai inf ? Jesus.. play aoe if you want symetric balance