Buff for 5 man grens

Any solution that adds further firepower to VSL is going to be an half assed solution that either creates a better g43 grenadiers or keep an underwhelming squad.
VSL grens are supposed to be a more durable grenadier squad. Replace the RA bonus with armor/damage reduction. This will make grenadiers scale better in late game by being more resistant to barrages and tank fire, and simultanuously make them better against other infantry not due to increased firepower, since that would make mg42 irrelevant.

Then we agree in most parts.

What about giving g43 grens diversion or whatever the officer ability is that gives fire on the move accuracy and a target size reduction? Or something similar at least as an active ability instead of a flat rec acc boost. Then the upgrade can still be a cheap alternative to the lmg at the cost of more active usage required.

What about giving g43 grens diversion or whatever the officer ability is that gives fire on the move accuracy and a target size reduction? Or something similar at least as an active ability instead of a flat rec acc boost. Then the upgrade can still be a cheap alternative to the lmg at the cost of more active usage required.

Giving abilities to weapon is a good alternative to flat out DPS.
or they could get a version of volley fire (I want there those g43 singing)

What about giving g43 grens diversion or whatever the officer ability is that gives fire on the move accuracy and a target size reduction? Or something similar at least as an active ability instead of a flat rec acc boost. Then the upgrade can still be a cheap alternative to the lmg at the cost of more active usage required.

That would overstep into G43 upgrade.

But a new ability could be the way to go.
Something akin to HTD maybe? Lowered accuracy, small rec acc bonus, immobilize, suppression immunity?

Gren VSL upgrade to focus on high durability (but with a slower build up compared to Osttruppen) over firepower with 5th model and STG 44, but with current cooldown bonuses traded for the extra -10% received accuracy.

That looks perfect to me, I don't think a complicated rework is needed.

I think ideally Ostheer mainline infantry should look like this:

• LMG Grens same as now, as long range defensive specialists that are okay at A-move attacking too;

• Osttruppen pretty much same as now, for fast map control and cheap cannon fodder;

• Gren G43 upgrade to focus on close-mid range firepower with 3x G43, but with toned down moving DPS to avoid blobbing;

• Gren VSL upgrade to focus on high durability (but with a slower build up compared to Osttruppen) over firepower with 5th model and STG 44, but with current cooldown bonuses traded for the extra -10% received accuracy. Similar to 7 men Cons.

Then the different squads would all have clear and defined roles. Osttruppen for fast T2 strats, LMG Grens for general purpose, G43 Grens for mobile and aggressive play, VSL Grens for a strong mid and late game with highly durable infantry that can stall for their support weapons / vehicles.

Osttruppen don't come from Tier 0 anymore unfortunately so you can't go fast Tier 2

IMO OSTR should be buildable from HQ, seems rather pointless having them build from T1, right next to grens with a 40mp difference, if OSSTR is buildable from HQ, it will still come out useful, and the early choice between mg ''spam'' or OSTR spam

Giving abilities to weapon is a good alternative to flat out DPS.
or they could get a version of volley fire (I want there those g43 singing)

That would overstep into G43 upgrade.

But a new ability could be the way to go.
Something akin to HTD maybe? Lowered accuracy, small rec acc bonus, immobilize, suppression immunity?

Both abilities could work. I think a proper definition of what the upgrade is to establish needs to be formed to decide exactly how to move forward with an ability. I'd sooner an ability though that Stat changes since fundamentally an extra model, especially for a faction designed around squishy infantry is already a powerful boon

IMO OSTR should be buildable from HQ, seems rather pointless having them build from T1, right next to grens with a 40mp difference, if OSSTR is buildable from HQ, it will still come out useful, and the early choice between mg ''spam'' or OSTR spam

From patch notes:

"Osttruppen have been moved to the Infanterie Kompanie. Previously, the unit allowed for very potent tech rushes into either Panzer Grenadiers or light vehicles that certain factions had issues responding to. Their panzerfaust range has also been reduced due to their larger squad size over Grenadiers while slot weapons given to Osttruppen will now deal more damage when the unit is in cover. The latter should improve the mid-late game performance of Osttruppen"

Honestly haven't bothered using it in the latest iteration.

But isn't the design flawed to begin with? You get a guy with an StG (close to mid range) yet want to keep the Kar98k Grens at range. Wasn't really that cool on Volks to begin with... and those get more StGs.

I just wanted to correct this because I didn't see anyone else in the thread. Not an StG for Wehrmacht, squad leader gets a G43.

EDIT: I just realized I haven't been paying attention to the parch notes myself. If it is an StG now then I apologize.

I am not 100% up-to-date on what the stats are but nerfing LMG grens is not good.

Grens are, in their current state, probably the weakest standard infantry squad.

grens are the strongest infantry in the game besides if used properly (depends on map, grens are god tier on Amily fields but garbage on kholodny)

At vet 3, they do not bleed, they do not drop models, The LMG model doesn’t get sniped anymore, they melt infantry at range and in order to beat them you have to close in, but if you are playing Wehrmacht like how you should then this isn’t possible because you are backed by 222 and MGs. Grens are strong as fuck. Volks are the worst infantry in the game, indisputable.

grens are the strongest infantry in the game besides if used properly (depends on map, grens are god tier on Amily fields but garbage on kholodny)

At vet 3, they do not bleed, they do not drop models, The LMG model doesn’t get sniped anymore, they melt infantry at range and in order to beat them you have to close in, but if you are playing Wehrmacht like how you should then this isn’t possible because you are backed by 222 and MGs. Grens are strong as fuck. Volks are the worst infantry in the game, indisputable.

If you compare grens to volks of course grens will look good lol besides they can't build sandbags and this game is just mostly spamming sandbags.

so what if sovs need to tech to get maxim. that tech is free. And 50 cal is superior to mg42.

The only way to make Jeager and VSL upgrades viable is to remove any bonuses to RA or stats and merge them across all commanders, go back to 5 men grenadiers with a G43

I'd like to see a return of the 5 man G43 grens, although I understand why they changed it. Maybe instead of the special VSL G43 with insane retreating wipe potential they could just give him a regular G43.

grens are the strongest infantry in the game besides if used properly (depends on map, grens are god tier on Amily fields but garbage on kholodny)

Really ?

grens are the strongest infantry in the game besides if used properly (depends on map, grens are god tier on Amily fields but garbage on kholodny)

While I agree that volks are the weakest, there's no way grens are the strongest. Rifles are superior, tommies are slightly better, and cons are superior too once they get 7 men

You could maybe say tommies are "weaker" because of no snare. But in terms of raw anti-infantry power definitely not

While I agree that volks are the weakest, there's no way grens are the strongest. Rifles are superior, tommies are slightly better, and cons are superior too once they get 7 men

You could maybe say tommies are "weaker" because of no snare. But in terms of raw anti-infantry power definitely not

Yeah, out of the gate, certain mainlines win in certain scenarios.
Overall, grens are great, but are not the "best" since being the "best" is hard to define.

I think Rifles are overall the best, considering the amount of scenarios where they win (and why OST needs MG42 early on to lock down Rifles).

Only thing where rifles suck hard is the snare animation. A couple of hours ago, lost a whole squad trying to snare a solo F*****G P4 caught out of position. Had the greatest luck of all, that the pintle MG and the cannon were killing infantry in the order of model snaring. Literally for 15 seconds or so killing model by model, always the one that picks up the snare and aims. Fuc*er aims and aims and then dies, 2nd model picks it up. Rinse and repeat.
Other than that, Rifles are the best. Then IS, then grens, then volks, then conscripts -- Overall IMHO.

Other than that, Rifles are the best. Then IS, then grens, then volks, then conscripts -- Overall IMHO.

Cons are significantly better than Volks. Conscripts in Green Cover win pretty much any engagement vs mainlines and even some elite infantry. 7 Man and SVT's compound this even harder. Volks only truly win fights for a short while after STG's pop, and before Vet 2/3/Weapon Upgrades come out and only in specific scenarios.

It's a matter of the length of viability of the infantry ultimately. Cons get their upgrade at 11-12 minutes which is the latest, but it's probably one of the most powerful upgrades (Or 3m for SVT's lmao) and it carries them through to the rest of the game. Grens, Rifles and Sections get theirs earlier (Roughly in that order from earliest to latest) and it also carries them through to the end of the game. Volks get an upgrade and it only lasts for about 5-6 minutes before being completely invalidated before mediums even show up.

This is why Volk veterancy needs to be reworked. Volks have the earliest weapon upgrade (Unless you're SVT Cons lmao) and they have to pay for it with anywhere between 15 and 50 minutes of irrelevancy for the rest of the game once other mainlines upgrade their weapons and place Volks into the dumpster. The idea is that Volks gain a power spike earlier than other mainlines, settledown into the late game to give Allied infantry their time to shine, then come back swinging in the back end of the match with a strong Vet 5 to bring them back into the fold and allow Volks their early upgrade without granting them excessive power for the rest of the game.

Really ?

Grenadiers are really fucking good, and with the newly buffed G43 they will be good anywhere
I disagree with people saying they are stronger than sections and rifles, but for their price they are really good. Your signature makes no sense because its volks that are trash