Commander Update Beta 2021 - USF Feedback

Rifle Company:
Flamer Rifleman - 55 muni upgrade

Bring back the cancer.

Rifle Company:
Flamer Rifleman - 55 muni upgrade

Bring back the cancer.

Crazy idea here:

What if Rifle Commander had an ability that allowed smoke grenades back onto Riflemen like when the army first came out.

This pls

Crazy idea here:

What if Rifle Commander had an ability that allowed smoke grenades back onto Riflemen like when the army first came out.

Does USF really need more access to smoke? They already have the most prevalence of the stuff in the game, and I scarcely think they need to be able to totally invalidate MGs.

Does USF really need more access to smoke? They already have the most prevalence of the stuff in the game, and I scarcely think they need to be able to totally invalidate MGs.

Just something to E8 doc to work, not like its gonna boost AEF winrate skyrocket or anything

Rifle Company:
Flamer Rifleman - 55 muni upgrade

Bring back the cancer.

BASED

Rifle Company:
Flamer Rifleman - 55 muni upgrade

Bring back the cancer.

Holy based +1

Also , was thinking about the ardennes assault stuff, there was some assets there wasn't there? I remember getting carbine riflemen to play around with, maybe we can have something like that, a 45+ muni upgrade that increases mid-long dps, would open up a more long range style of gameplay and also serve the thematic part of 'rifle' company.

To address Rifle Company in general.

It's worth noting the range increase on the Easy 8 means the accuracy and penetration at its previous range values got improved as well, so it's a bigger buff than it might seem.

And sorry, if you don't see a use for Riflemen flares or sprint, that's just unfamiliarity with the doctrine. Sprint also got a CP reduction so it's relevant during early mg42 and early light vehicle engagements.

I'd say even Rear Echelon Flamers are worth it now ever since reinforce cost for Rear Echelons went down from 25 to 23 manpower, not that hard to fit in a second Rear Echelon into your composition now, be it only situationally the best choice.

WP offmap got its cost reduced from 130 to 110 munitions to be in-line with Cluster Bombs offmap cost.

So yes, the doctrine got only soft buffs (with the exception of Easy Eight), but that should be enough to push it from "just not there" to being in a good spot.

To address Rifle Company in general.

It's worth noting the range increase on the Easy 8 means the accuracy and penetration at its previous range values got improved as well, so it's a bigger buff than it might seem.

And sorry, if you don't see a use for Riflemen flares or sprint, that's just unfamiliarity with the doctrine. Sprint also got a CP reduction so it's relevant during early mg42 and early light vehicle engagements.

I'd say even Rear Echelon Flamers are worth it now ever since reinforce cost for Rear Echelons went down from 25 to 23 manpower, not that hard to fit in a second Rear Echelon into your composition now, be it only situationally the best choice.

WP offmap got its cost reduced from 130 to 110 munitions to be in-line with Cluster Bombs offmap cost.

So yes, the doctrine got only soft buffs (with the exception of Easy Eight), but that should be enough to push it from "just not there" to being in a good spot.

Even after all the soft buffs the commander is still mediocre. The changes to the E8 are good but AI/armor is lacking compared to P4J for cost. Flares and sprint are highly situational. Sprint cost what 15 muni to use if I remember correctly. So to force a MG retreat with certainty a grenade should be used which means 45muni is gone on one encounter. Early game that is unsustainable due to lower income. I do agree that it is useful to catch LV unaware/unsupported but again that is situational. RE flamers are still super squishy and saving a whole 2 manpower does nothing to help, that is unnoticeable over the entire game unless you build more than 2 RE which no one is doing if you are playing seriously. I agree with the WP offmap buff which seems to be a fair price since it can be very versatile.

Personally I would like the E8 to have 240 armor with fuel cost increased to 160. Maybe give RE flamer 15% received accuracy buff since it locks out smoke and minesweeper.

To address Rifle Company in general.

It's worth noting the range increase on the Easy 8 means the accuracy and penetration at its previous range values got improved as well, so it's a bigger buff than it might seem.

And sorry, if you don't see a use for Riflemen flares or sprint, that's just unfamiliarity with the doctrine. Sprint also got a CP reduction so it's relevant during early mg42 and early light vehicle engagements.

I'd say even Rear Echelon Flamers are worth it now ever since reinforce cost for Rear Echelons went down from 25 to 23 manpower, not that hard to fit in a second Rear Echelon into your composition now, be it only situationally the best choice.

WP offmap got its cost reduced from 130 to 110 munitions to be in-line with Cluster Bombs offmap cost.

So yes, the doctrine got only soft buffs (with the exception of Easy Eight), but that should be enough to push it from "just not there" to being in a good spot.

i don't know, for me the slight range increase for and the concurrent marginally better acc and pen compared to live aren't worth the 10 fuel increase. the e8 needs some form of AI boost imho, and if an AoE adjustment isn't possible maybe it could get an AI skillshot (frag or WP round) instead?

I always thought it could be nice to break up some of the tools of Mechanized Company and gave it to lackluster doctrines? (some has already been done by removing the dozer blades)
What if you moved the M3 Halftrack from Mechanized to Rifle Company? A halftrack could fit well in the doctrine by having it bolster rifleman by giving them a frontline source of healing, fire support, and a mobility platform. It probably wouldn't do that much to improve but could be a small boost alongside the current buffs.

+1 on this

I rarely think balance patches require frustrated response but USF I argue is the faction that needs a commander rework the most, so this USF change definitely warrants a frustrated response.

USF had a lot of dead commanders for a faction with the least # of commanders. Anyone correct me on this? OKW and Brits have more commanders than USF.

These are commanders that either are dead or barely used:
Rifle company
Heavy cav
Armor company
Mech assault for team games
Recon is mediocre but used here and there

Look onto vehicle crews for armor company. And Rifle company should give something to Rifles like how it was originally designed. Not a flare that nobody uses. Something good like smoke grenades or sprint or something.

So far this patch looks terrible for USF. It's about as bad as the one a couple of patches ago that nerfed UKF into the dumpster.

The dozer blade has been removed from Reserve Armor due to the effectiveness of the 76mm Sherman. WTF - they are going to nerf one unit because a different one is too good? First of all, it's been weeks since I've seen anyone get 76mm Shermans, and that person did terrible in the game. It doesn't have good AI, and at best it trades roughly equal to the OKW PIV. Nobody ever confuses it with a Panther. Lastly, USF needs more access to a brawler tank, not less.

The Easy 8 buff won't do much to make the commander more viable. It still has microscopic AOE for the main gun.

For a commander update, this doesn't really do anything for USF. Both axis factions have non-doc access to a good brawler tank and rocket arty. USF has neither, and often has to make defensive choices for their commanders.

Make the RE rifle nade toggled, so they can't move while they use it. Like a wee li'l mortar.

So far this patch looks terrible for USF. It's about as bad as the one a couple of patches ago that nerfed UKF into the dumpster.

The dozer blade has been removed from Reserve Armor due to the effectiveness of the 76mm Sherman. WTF - they are going to nerf one unit because a different one is too good? First of all, it's been weeks since I've seen anyone get 76mm Shermans, and that person did terrible in the game. It doesn't have good AI, and at best it trades roughly equal to the OKW PIV. Nobody ever confuses it with a Panther. Lastly, USF needs more access to a brawler tank, not less.

The Easy 8 buff won't do much to make the commander more viable. It still has microscopic AOE for the main gun.

For a commander update, this doesn't really do anything for USF. Both axis factions have non-doc access to a good brawler tank and rocket arty. USF has neither, and often has to make defensive choices for their commanders.

E8 used to be good ages ago, idk what happened to it in the past 6 years. I remember it having great AI and AT both. It was a spammable tank.

I think it needs good AI more than range.

This commander updates really didn't address the core issues with USF.

Here is the problem with USF:

Going commanders other than Infantry, Airborne, Tac Support, or Urban is a death sentence because the other commanders are so bad. USF relies so heavily on Calliope for team games that going something like Greyhound or Wolverines is rarely ever worth it. After WC51 nerf and now the 76mm dozer nerf, Mechanized will be another dead commander

The Pershing needing repairs totally messes up with the flow for USF. Normally you never need a Rear Echelon to do repairing because vehicles have vehicle crews. We need the Calliope, Priest, and ESPECIALLY the Pershing to have a self repair ability. USF has been designed with vehicle crew repairs and I think it fits the design that these units can repair themselves.

Rifle company is absolutely dead because USF is already munitions starved and shooting flares is not worth it. The Easy 8 is lackluster, it needs to have good AI so that it can be used as a brawler like said in replied post.

Rifle company needs to help Riflemen. They used to give Riflemen vet and then nerfed to give them flamers. And then nerfed again to give flares. Riflemen need something great from that company. Give them the smokes that were taken away, Riflemen were designed to be versatile. That's why USF never had a mortar. Smokes were already provided by Rifles.

USF cannot rely on a mortar for smoke, it doesn't fit their style. Mortar is too static. Riflemen need to be mobile, that's why they have smoke grenades. At least give them smokes via this Rifle Company. It would really become my favorite company and I'll probably always use it. I am 100% certain Rifle Company will not be a dead commander if simply given the smoke grenades instead of flares.

Armor company needs help. Maybe with the Bulldozer changes it will be popular again we will see. Do vehicle crews get increased repair speed? If not, they should be added.

Another dead company is Recon. Now that Pack Howie is nerfed its not that good. IR pathfinder nerf will literally make this commander worse than Armor Company. Greyhound comes too late. IR Pathfinder barrage is supposed to be strong, its expensive and belongs to a dedicated arty unit.

They are called IR Pathfinder for a reason. By design their arty should be good. Yes calling it on MG42 ensures MG42 death, but that's spending a lot of munitions to kill a MG42. If players really don't like this due to lack of counter, then fine increase time to first shell, BUT compensate by adding another shell. Do not literally nerf the ability. The ability just suffers from guarantee wipes, that's it.

USF cannot rely on a mortar for smoke, it doesn't fit their style. Mortar is too static. Riflemen need to be mobile, that's why they have smoke grenades. At least give them smokes via this Rifle Company. It would really become my favorite company and I'll probably always use it. I am 100% certain Rifle Company will not be a dead commander if simply given the smoke grenades instead of flares.

I mean, USF doesnt rely on the Mortar for smokes. REs, and all three officer units already have smoke grenades.

I mean, USF doesnt rely on the Mortar for smokes. REs, and all three officer units already have smoke grenades.

Can't argue with that

Holy based +1

Also , was thinking about the ardennes assault stuff, there was some assets there wasn't there? I remember getting carbine riflemen to play around with, maybe we can have something like that, a 45+ muni upgrade that increases mid-long dps, would open up a more long range style of gameplay and also serve the thematic part of 'rifle' company.

Add this if you want to see Axis players complain and flood the forum with grief. Imagine USF Rifles with G34s flocking around the map gunning down everything.

I swear if you gave USF parity units so many axis players would be up in arms. It would be righteous.

Give USF a stock rocket artillery unit and a heavy armored Sherman like a Brummbar that drives up to axis blobs and shrugs off PAK shots and just bleeds axis MP like mad, letting BAR riflemen mop up. Give me AT Guns that PEN every time and I don't have to use muni to have them PEN.

The lack of such units results in USF needing some type of IDF (indirect fire) capability to augment its inferior units in the late game.

E8 used to be good ages ago, idk what happened to it in the past 6 years. I remember it having great AI and AT both. It was a spammable tank.

I think it needs good AI more than range.

This commander updates really didn't address the core issues with USF.

Here is the problem with USF:

Going commanders other than Infantry, Airborne, Tac Support, or Urban is a death sentence because the other commanders are so bad. USF relies so heavily on Calliope for team games that going something like Greyhound or Wolverines is rarely ever worth it. After WC51 nerf and now the 76mm dozer nerf, Mechanized will be another dead commander

The Pershing needing repairs totally messes up with the flow for USF. Normally you never need a Rear Echelon to do repairing because vehicles have vehicle crews. We need the Calliope, Priest, and ESPECIALLY the Pershing to have a self repair ability. USF has been designed with vehicle crew repairs and I think it fits the design that these units can repair themselves.

Rifle company is absolutely dead because USF is already munitions starved and shooting flares is not worth it. The Easy 8 is lackluster, it needs to have good AI so that it can be used as a brawler like said in replied post.

Rifle company needs to help Riflemen. They used to give Riflemen vet and then nerfed to give them flamers. And then nerfed again to give flares. Riflemen need something great from that company. Give them the smokes that were taken away, Riflemen were designed to be versatile. That's why USF never had a mortar. Smokes were already provided by Rifles.

USF cannot rely on a mortar for smoke, it doesn't fit their style. Mortar is too static. Riflemen need to be mobile, that's why they have smoke grenades. At least give them smokes via this Rifle Company. It would really become my favorite company and I'll probably always use it. I am 100% certain Rifle Company will not be a dead commander if simply given the smoke grenades instead of flares.

Armor company needs help. Maybe with the Bulldozer changes it will be popular again we will see. Do vehicle crews get increased repair speed? If not, they should be added.

Another dead company is Recon. Now that Pack Howie is nerfed its not that good. IR pathfinder nerf will literally make this commander worse than Armor Company. Greyhound comes too late. IR Pathfinder barrage is supposed to be strong, its expensive and belongs to a dedicated arty unit.

They are called IR Pathfinder for a reason. By design their arty should be good. Yes calling it on MG42 ensures MG42 death, but that's spending a lot of munitions to kill a MG42. If players really don't like this due to lack of counter, then fine increase time to first shell, BUT compensate by adding another shell. Do not literally nerf the ability. The ability just suffers from guarantee wipes, that's it.

Agree.

My perspectives:

For USF to have a somewhat comparative advantage in the late game, a Commander with a solid IDF (indirect fire) capability is needed. When you look at the lineup of common commanders being picked there is a common trend. It's the off-map IDF capability. USF Players understand the following:

1. Current stock IDF units - Mortar, Pack Howitzer, Scotts is lackluster to ineffective in countering axis late-game vetted infantry blobs supported by AT Guns and MGs. OKW and OST rocket artillery dominates stock USF IDF units, and they are resource sinks. Lastly, USF gets a major with cheap off-map but the red smoke grants enough time for an axis player to reposition, second for range Howitzer or static emplacements requires the major pushing deep with screening forces to call in the strike.

2. Picking a Commander with no IDF augmentation early on makes for a tough uphill battle.

3. Stock tanks are easily destroyed by superior axis armor and AT, which PENS every time and must be microed intensively to ensure survival.

Give USF a stock rocket artillery unit and a heavy armored Sherman like a Brummbar that drives up to axis blobs and shrugs off PAK shots and just bleeds axis MP like mad

You can't even begin to imagine the screeching that would ensue if even a short barreled Jumbo suddenly appeared in US' stock roster.

As for indirect many of the lackluster commanders like Rifle Company would really pick up in attractiveness if they got some form of off map artillery to dislodge camping axis. Willy Pete in Rifle is really useless but if instead there was some off map barrage then it would definitely help the commander. Regardless RIFLE company should still give RIFLEMEN something more than just flares.

TheRE nerf seems a bit much, I suggest better that it becomes a ability that replaces smoke for the HE grenade. Also it replaces the m1 carbines for m1 garands to better separate them from the normal upgrade. Since it will become an ability it will like a riflemen grenade, with the same stats.

Like the idea of the E8 but at the same time it worries me. The unit for me now is really decent but just adding the fuel cost might be too light. Increase pop to 16 and add the same ability as the 76 sherman, to change between AP rounds.

And the 76 remove the changing ammo ability and add the white phos ability with 40 range. Also remove the smoke barrage ability. This change will make it distinguish itself from the rest of the shermans and the unit is fragile compared with the others making it balance it out with this ability.

Pathfinders for me still need a rework(well the whole commander), they are still a strong unit that can hit hard early on. First to fix the crews, instead make the sight bonus a ability. For me a good option for them is to limit them to one(like a command tank) and have a few abilities like for example, an ambush ability that increases sight and accuracy(it will work similar to other snipers camouflage, were they can move through cover without giving away their positions. And they can drop team weapons once they reach the CP. This will then require to change the commander, for me its a Air commander with barely any air abilities. Replace the HMG weapon for recon and the AT weapon for infantry strafe like the calliope commander. This will make the commander feel more like an AIR one.

And not to mention the paratroopers can also receive camouflage, they are meant to go behind enemy lines and cause havoc through ambush tactics which they can't do. Increase slightly their target size to balance it out. The support paras can also receive a change, to make em different from their other counter part. Replace their m1 carbines for the ranger ones and replace the zook upgrade for a smg package that adds 3 grease guns and 3 thompsons.

For rangers this is a welcomed change, but will also love if they could add a accuracy bonus so they can use better the slot weapons. So they can truly have have "marksmanship skills". Replace vet 1 ability with this one.

i don't know, for me the slight range increase for and the concurrent marginally better acc and pen compared to live aren't worth the 10 fuel increase. the e8 needs some form of AI boost imho, and if an AoE adjustment isn't possible maybe it could get an AI skillshot (frag or WP round) instead?

5 extra Range are massive in medium vs medium fights. Easily worth 10 fuel.