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New penal ptrs feels a bit much

5 Mar 2021, 16:53 PM
#41
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779



It's 2015 again.
5 Mar 2021, 16:56 PM
#42
avatar of JPA32

Posts: 178

Man, some prime Vipper posting in here. "Adding 50% more AT damage didn't significantly change Penals, PTRS Penals were always good." Absolutely hilarious, how does anyone take that seriously and keep responding. Dude is delusional in his Axis bias.

That being said, Penals feel so much better now, especially vs OKW since it gives you easy access to the M3. You still don't want to upgrade PTRS unless you absolutely have too because you're neutering your mainline infantry squad into some bastardization of an AT squad. At most you're going to upgrade 1 Penal into a PTRS is you absolutely need AT but any more than that and you just straight up can't hold ground vs infantry anymore.
5 Mar 2021, 16:56 PM
#43
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Mar 2021, 16:30 PMVipper

I do not really make difference which versions of PTRS the post was about about, it only matter that the post was about the weapon and not a squad.

No. As the one who started the post the version does matter. The PTRS used by penals are different from the one both Guard and Conscripts use in game and that has received changes.
MMX
5 Mar 2021, 16:58 PM
#44
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Mar 2021, 15:47 PMPip


Very good point. Do you think a change to make Infantry AT unable to fire from a moving vehicle (Or fire from a vehicle at all, perhaps, as the former is also cheesable) would be a good idea? It would leave room to improve PTRS performance in other areas without them being unbearably cheesy.

It would also nerf the Pgren Battle Bus and similar tactics, if you applied a change like that broadly, but maybe that's also a good thing.


why would you ever want to remove one of the most fun mechanics from the game?
Pip
5 Mar 2021, 17:02 PM
#45
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594



It's 2015 again.


God, I hope this isnt happening again.
5 Mar 2021, 17:02 PM
#46
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Mar 2021, 17:02 PMPip


God, I hope this isnt happening again.


Try it yourself, it is exactly like this again. :snfAmi:
Pip
5 Mar 2021, 17:04 PM
#47
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594



Try it yourself, it is exactly like this again. :snfAmi:


They accidentally reintroduced being able to kill crewed weapons while the crew are still alive?
5 Mar 2021, 17:05 PM
#48
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Mar 2021, 17:04 PMPip


They accidentally reintroduced being able to kill crewed weapons while the crew are still alive?


No idea then. PTRS screw crewed weapon but no tomorrow, is the truth.
5 Mar 2021, 17:06 PM
#49
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Mar 2021, 16:56 PMJPA32
Man, some prime Vipper posting in here. "Adding 50% more AT damage didn't significantly change Penals, PTRS Penals were always good." Absolutely hilarious, how does anyone take that seriously and keep responding. Dude is delusional in his Axis bias....

Allow me to explain something to you when you use quotations marks it meams that what you are posting exactly what someone else has posted.

I have never posted this:
"Adding 50% more AT damage didn't significantly change Penals, PTRS Penals were always good."
or anything even remotely close to its meaning, so I would suggested you delete that part of your post because it simply a lie.


No. As the one who started the post the version does matter. The PTRS used by penals are different from the one both Guard and Conscripts use in game and that has received changes.

It does not matter in context of the debate with Pip but it does matter in thread. I did not bring Guards into to this debate Pip did.

My post included the changes to all AT rifle versions and not the changes to Penals as a squad.
5 Mar 2021, 17:12 PM
#50
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Mar 2021, 15:47 PMPip


Very good point. Do you think a change to make Infantry AT unable to fire from a moving vehicle (Or fire from a vehicle at all, perhaps, as the former is also cheesable) would be a good idea? It would leave room to improve PTRS performance in other areas without them being unbearably cheesy.

It would also nerf the Pgren Battle Bus and similar tactics, if you applied a change like that broadly, but maybe that's also a good thing.





This is fair. I think the only ways around this would either be to give PTRS increased utility (Through giving them interesting abilities, like a tread shot or some other sort of "aimed shot/micro snare" ability), or to bite the proverbial bullet and turn them into a reskinned zook/shreck by removing their infinite accuracy advantage, and increasing both their pen/damage while reducing their RoF. Either of these would make them more attractive lategame, i imagine.

I mean, unless people are happy with the current state of affairs... though are they really?


I don't think removing the cheese is good, but i wouldn't mind if another modifier is added to units firing from vehicles (they currently have minus 50% acc) in the form of cooldown. And then further buffs, specially utility wise for those lights vehicles which are the most affected been added. But i don't think this is a priority at all as they are not meta problems on the foreseable future.


I'm disappointed that on this last patch, they didn't went full head on making Penals PTRS a full AT squad, nerfing their AI even more when upgraded and adjusting their satchel/snare availability.
I think by giving Soviets an alternative non doctrinal way to deal with heavy TDs, any adjustments to cheese ram + offmaps would been more than fine.

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Mar 2021, 17:04 PMPip


They accidentally reintroduced being able to kill crewed weapons while the crew are still alive?


Check when the video was uploaded. Porygon just want to complain as this has already been fixed (years ago).

5 Mar 2021, 17:27 PM
#51
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Mar 2021, 15:33 PMVipper

Test or calculate their TTK vs medium tanks.

This ignores the advantage of higher alpha strike damage vs. lower damage higher RoF, which matters quite a lot for AT infantry. When your a squad that fights vehicles you usually can't stand around very long

Easier for Zooks and schrecks to actually secure kills in a real game scenario. Ptrs penals are fine
Pip
5 Mar 2021, 17:32 PM
#52
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Mar 2021, 17:06 PMVipper

My post included the changes to all AT rifle versions and not the changes to Penals as a squad.


This is the error you made. The thread is about Penals and their performance using PTRS, not about a singular PTRS rifle in a vacuum. The people you originally quoted were talking about the former, not the latter.

We know what changes were made to the rifle. They aren't particularly relevant in this discussion.
5 Mar 2021, 17:43 PM
#53
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1958



It's 2015 again.


So 1 mg is supposed to beat 5 squads? Okay.
Pip
5 Mar 2021, 17:55 PM
#54
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594



I don't think removing the cheese is good, but i wouldn't mind if another modifier is added to units firing from vehicles (they currently have minus 50% acc) in the form of cooldown. And then further buffs, specially utility wise for those lights vehicles which are the most affected been added. But i don't think this is a priority at all as they are not meta problems on the foreseable future.


I'm disappointed that on this last patch, they didn't went full head on making Penals PTRS a full AT squad, nerfing their AI even more when upgraded and adjusting their satchel/snare availability.
I think by giving Soviets an alternative non doctrinal way to deal with heavy TDs, any adjustments to cheese ram + offmaps would been more than fine.


I guess that's a personal thing, I'm really not a fan of cheese and massive RNG, so really any reduction/removal of that is fine by me.

I'd agree that Penals turning into a "real" AT squad would have been nice... and would be a VERY good excuse to just outright remove ram and replace it with a more universal, and less disgustingly cheesy ability. As i say, it doesnt even necessarily need to be them providing tonnes of damage on their own. Button is a good example of an ability that lets an unit (Guards, obviously) provide good utility versus even heavy vehicles. I'm not suggesting to give Penals button, but they could well get some sort of utility ability, if the Balance team doesn't want to just give them Zooks.



Check when the video was uploaded. Porygon just want to complain as this has already been fixed (years ago).



I saw that it was from 2015, i just wasnt sure if it was supposed to demonstrate that something old had returned.
5 Mar 2021, 20:30 PM
#55
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Mar 2021, 17:43 PMGrumpy


So 1 mg is supposed to beat 5 squads? Okay.


So 5 squads, out of cover A moving MG in green cover suppose to beat it? Mkay. You must be enjoying playing as brits :snfPeter:
5 Mar 2021, 20:34 PM
#56
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8


I guess i'll wait for your opinion when(if) Penals get more prevalent.

I'll just ask to make sure, you do know that conscripts also have PTRS and theirs always came with 3 rifles and dealt same damage to vehicles as penals and against vehicles, it never was any issue?

Only difference is, penals are much less cost efficient, expensive and stock.
5 Mar 2021, 22:41 PM
#57
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



So 5 squads, out of cover A moving MG in green cover suppose to beat it? Mkay. You must be enjoying playing as brits :snfPeter:


That was only possible because back then, you could target the support weapon rather than the crew, and if the weapon was destroyed, it was immediately destroyed.
Con PTRS was not a great weapon against infantry, but the size of the support weapons meant that they would never miss, making any of the debuffs from been suppressed almost meaningless.

Suppression cuts DPS down to 15%/20% if the squad doesn't need to reload. 5 Squads of anything are more than likely to be able to destroy frontally any MG if they can volley fire the gunner. More so if you enjoy a little bit of light cover and the squad is vetted. Don't forget MGs don't get any defensive RA and the crew already has 1.25 size.
5 Mar 2021, 23:02 PM
#58
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1



That was only possible because back then, you could target the support weapon rather than the crew, and if the weapon was destroyed, it was immediately destroyed.
Con PTRS was not a great weapon against infantry, but the size of the support weapons meant that they would never miss, making any of the debuffs from been suppressed almost meaningless.

Suppression cuts DPS down to 15%/20% if the squad doesn't need to reload. 5 Squads of anything are more than likely to be able to destroy frontally any MG if they can volley fire the gunner. More so if you enjoy a little bit of light cover and the squad is vetted. Don't forget MGs don't get any defensive RA and the crew already has 1.25 size.


Ye, I understand this, but still rifles\cons firepower is based on close-to-mid range, which means thats situations with braidead A-moving mostlikely wont be possible because squads wont have enouth of a DPS to kill an MG, even without RA modifiers. Elite inf for sure can, but they are elite after all and having multiple elite squads be it airborn or obersts requare a ton of MP anyway.

And as for the Allies both Vekers and 50.cal have enouth of a suppresion\damage to prevent such overruns aswell.

Only 5-men IS can realistically do such moves right now, thats why IS blob is the most frustrating to play against. Because well, MGs are kinda supposed to counter blobs after-all.
5 Mar 2021, 23:37 PM
#59
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1958




Only 5-men IS can realistically do such moves right now, thats why IS blob is the most frustrating to play against. Because well, MGs are kinda supposed to counter blobs after-all.


This isn't even close to true. It's just whining, not winning. You want to be able to buy 2 mgs, lock down half of the map with it, micro 2 units and win. It's inane that you think the person camping with the MG should win that engagement. They couldn't have even been paying attention to it or they would've retreated it with a couple models. No decent player leaves a MG alone like that. There's nothing to give it sight, nothing to protect it from getting flanked. In short, the camper is probably a worse player than the A-mover.



So 5 squads, out of cover A moving MG in green cover suppose to beat it? Mkay. You must be enjoying playing as brits :snfPeter:



Five squads of anything will beat any mg. Also, a vickers has worse suppression than an MG42, and a blob of 5 obers, falls, or JLI's absolutely melts a vickers, it doesn't even have to be that many.
Pip
6 Mar 2021, 00:24 AM
#60
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Mar 2021, 23:37 PMGrumpy

This isn't even close to true. It's just whining, not winning. You want to be able to buy 2 mgs, lock down half of the map with it, micro 2 units and win. It's inane that you think the person camping with the MG should win that engagement. They couldn't have even been paying attention to it or they would've retreated it with a couple models. No decent player leaves a MG alone like that. There's nothing to give it sight, nothing to protect it from getting flanked. In short, the camper is probably a worse player than the A-mover.


If you flank the MG you win with even a single squad, if you charge it frontally you really ought to lose with basically any number of squads. Being able to take them on frontally with a blob of infantry is counter to how they're ostensibly supposed to be designed.

Why should someone charging an MG frontally win the engagement? The point of MGs is to be able to hold off multiple infantry squads through suppression, the weakness of the unit being its relative lack of mobility, and the fact it can only fire in an arc in front of itself.

The guy a-moving directly through an MG's arc is absolutely a worse player than the guy with the MG. He DIDN'T flank the MG that was out alone in the open like that, and yet he still won (In this case he won because of an oversight in design, which has since been rectified)
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14 Mar 2025, 10:45 AM
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13 Mar 2025, 20:00 PM
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13 Mar 2025, 19:58 PM
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13 Mar 2025, 19:57 PM
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13 Mar 2025, 19:56 PM
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13 Mar 2025, 19:53 PM
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12 Mar 2025, 04:00 AM
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theekvn: also US tier 4 is 145f and Sherman pen 140 nerf is too much.
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07 Mar 2025, 19:14 PM
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01 Mar 2025, 18:24 PM
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01 Mar 2025, 17:25 PM
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01 Mar 2025, 11:44 AM
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28 Feb 2025, 23:32 PM
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28 Feb 2025, 20:38 PM
Willy Pete: And only on annihilation, and I have to let the AI live long enough...
28 Feb 2025, 02:04 AM
Willy Pete: Pershing is absurd, but ive still only gotten to use it against AI
28 Feb 2025, 02:03 AM
Lady Xenarra: WTB Pershing for Axis, that is all :lolol:
27 Feb 2025, 13:32 PM
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27 Feb 2025, 02:34 AM
Willy Pete: I havent even seen a pershing yet. Coh3 games still move too fast for it lol
27 Feb 2025, 00:30 AM
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26 Feb 2025, 16:27 PM
Lady Xenarra: Has anyone actually used the KT much? My experience is that the match is usually over long before I get the CPs for it
26 Feb 2025, 14:35 PM
Rosbone: Can someone message me the day you can look at Coh3 and not face palm yourself in disbelief that actual humans worked on it? Much appreciated.
26 Feb 2025, 06:40 AM
Rosbone: The only way to feel good about Coh3 is to never look at Coh3. Once you see it, you cant unsee it.
26 Feb 2025, 06:37 AM
Rosbone: Observer mode sucks, player stats pages are scatter brained mess, etc etc etc
26 Feb 2025, 06:35 AM
Rosbone: It is really hard to tell people to buy the DLC with feeling like they are throwing their money down the toilet for a nearly dead game. But Big Tonks!!! Oh well, not my problem.
25 Feb 2025, 18:12 PM
Rosbone: No 4v4 maps, busted menus 2 years after release, still have not fixed janky sounds people have complained about for over 2 years, etc etc.
25 Feb 2025, 18:10 PM
Rosbone: And the skirmish menus are still at a BETA level. Just the largest game play mode completely ignored... again.
25 Feb 2025, 18:09 PM
Willy Pete: Oh wtf. Yeah the crossing remake was in the 2v2 demo. No more 3s and 4s is a bummer tho
25 Feb 2025, 16:42 PM
aerafield: What? No, he means that all the new maps are for 1v1. Though Im pretty sure they will be playable in 2v2 as well
25 Feb 2025, 15:50 PM
Willy Pete: Are the maps really locked behind dlc? Surely they must be in the regular update
25 Feb 2025, 15:22 PM
Rosbone: I would like to join in celebration with the 9% of Coh3 MP players who are getting ALL of the new maps. Woohoo! #3Tards
21 Feb 2025, 19:22 PM
OKSpitfire: I hope that at least one of heavies is a like-for-like reskin of the coh 2 ISU-152. I miss that thing.
21 Feb 2025, 10:23 AM
Rosbone: Buy our cool new large tanks that will never get played on the 4 new 1v1 maps added. Perfect synergy! :facepalm:
20 Feb 2025, 19:23 PM
Rosbone: Everyone ready for some deep penetration :snfPeter:
20 Feb 2025, 17:13 PM
Lady Xenarra: I'm sure the ppl who defended it as balanced for Allies will be screaming like they got scaled with boiling water, in COH3. How the tables turn.
20 Feb 2025, 11:33 AM
Willy Pete: I think it was nuts with any engine damage. Especially on superheavies
20 Feb 2025, 07:03 AM
aerafield: Personally I think without the ram ability, it's worse than loiters for example
20 Feb 2025, 00:09 AM
Willy Pete: It combined well with most slowing abilities, not just ram stuns
19 Feb 2025, 23:36 PM
Willy Pete: Only??? I think not being able to shoot it down and the ramp up effect also had something to do with it
19 Feb 2025, 23:34 PM
Willy Pete: Really
19 Feb 2025, 23:30 PM
aerafield: AT overwatch was broken only because it came with the faction of T34 ramming
19 Feb 2025, 22:29 PM
Willy Pete: Love to see Relic really learning from their past mistakes. Let's bring back the dumbest ability in coh2, and charge money for it
19 Feb 2025, 20:34 PM
Willy Pete: New DAK commander will have AT overwatch as alternate choice to elefant
19 Feb 2025, 20:33 PM
aaa: Funy thing new players dont know that. And are trying to compete vs hacks
19 Feb 2025, 10:33 AM
aaa: Online gaming is trash in general, not just coh. On high level there are all cheats in most games
19 Feb 2025, 10:24 AM
aaa: 2 cheaters in 3 days. MH and DH
19 Feb 2025, 09:57 AM
aerafield: I am a simple man, I build Humvees with Pathfinders and Missile Launchers inside, I am happy
18 Feb 2025, 20:57 PM
Lady Xenarra: aerafield lamevee spammer confirmed :nahnah:
18 Feb 2025, 20:42 PM
aerafield: those who know, know: https://www.reddit.com/r/CompanyOfHeroes/s/fPk4yLIgmK
18 Feb 2025, 15:40 PM
adamírcz: Might be onto somethin here, combine side armour existing, maps where flanking is a viable option, and hopefully also heavies actually being less manouverable than mediums (lookin at you coh2), and it might be fun gameplay
17 Feb 2025, 13:39 PM
Willy Pete: Shouldn't coh3 heavies actually have insane front armor values? The glory days of 400+ Kt armor wouldn't be as bad when side armor is a thing. Not to say its a good idea lol
14 Feb 2025, 23:14 PM
aerafield: But then again, maybe CoH3 superheavies should actually have insane armor values because the whole game is designed for the clumsy & inept anyway :snfPeter:
14 Feb 2025, 23:04 PM
aerafield: It's like you have to coordinate an entire orchestra of abilities and the correct units, meanwhile your opponent just clicks his 1 superheavy tank occasionally...
14 Feb 2025, 23:01 PM
aerafield: the giga frontal armor also made these units too oppressive in average or low ELO games
14 Feb 2025, 22:59 PM
aerafield: Massive HP pool but reasonable amount of armor is way healthier design
14 Feb 2025, 22:57 PM
aerafield: Say what you want, but the titanium frontal armor design of coh2 superheavies was bullshit. Too many bad players not getting punished for their bad micro because penetration RNG carries them
14 Feb 2025, 22:57 PM
Willy Pete: Also the attack ground with the pak40 looked perfect, that Pershing should be dead
14 Feb 2025, 19:18 PM
Willy Pete: Ahh just saw the other one that died. Some bad rng I think but there was an AT gun at med range for a chunk of that fight
14 Feb 2025, 19:14 PM
Willy Pete: Which KT? I saw one got almost deleted but it also showed its side to a hellcat AND the m5. I think the player even admitted he got lucky
14 Feb 2025, 19:10 PM
Lady Xenarra: I understand that the devs want to sell the Allied part of the DLC, but the KT got swiss cheesed like a COH2 bunker on treads :S
14 Feb 2025, 15:16 PM
SupremeStefan: They should make dlc separataly for axis and alies
14 Feb 2025, 10:28 AM
SupremeStefan: 25$ is actually a ok price for 40 abilites = 8 commanders = 4 battlegroups. But problem is that it comes in bundle
14 Feb 2025, 10:24 AM
Willy Pete: Have they shown the actual trees yet for the new commanders? Skimmed through the deep dive today, didnt see em
13 Feb 2025, 22:29 PM
Rosbone: Big Tonk boners incoming :hansGASM:
13 Feb 2025, 17:38 PM
donofsandiego: Probably not
12 Feb 2025, 14:57 PM
Lone-Wolf: Hi guys. Error code -4. Any fixes?
08 Feb 2025, 17:09 PM
donofsandiego: Probably not
07 Feb 2025, 16:57 PM
SkYisTheLimiT_CoH: any coh2.org admin there ?
07 Feb 2025, 12:43 PM
Lady Xenarra: Ever the contrarian, aerafield.
07 Feb 2025, 11:59 AM
aerafield: I havent seen the new units in action yet (whose BGs will not be purchased by too many people as they are pretty expensive I recon), but I can say with 100% confidence that the Pershing needs a buff
07 Feb 2025, 02:31 AM
Lady Xenarra: I would think lots more players would come/return since there's so many iconic units being added in the new BGs. I just don't want to hear another 8+ yrs of Pershing need buff complaints
06 Feb 2025, 23:22 PM
adamírcz: If I had my supply of copium, Id say they might at least get enough money to not have to wait 5 months with problems that should be a matter of bi-weekly hotfix
06 Feb 2025, 23:10 PM
adamírcz: I mean, its overpriced,
06 Feb 2025, 23:10 PM
Rosbone: Will it help or hurt the current player base is the real question. Should add more players, but may drive many away.
06 Feb 2025, 19:17 PM
Rosbone: Yes you too can play with a persdhing for the low price of $24.99 USD. Or be the poor schlub who gets his rectum reconfigured who doesnt have the latest pay to win stuffs.
06 Feb 2025, 19:16 PM
donofsandiego: persdhing in coh 3? 😳
06 Feb 2025, 18:42 PM
Rosbone: @aerafield Ahhh, I think I made a pershing like twice in my life since that commander is pretty bad in 4s.
05 Feb 2025, 23:20 PM

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