[Winter Balance Update] UKF Feedback

Does the raid package take both slots? Or can the scoped lee einfield be stacked with a bren? Because they used to have juggle problems because of the scoped lee einfields and other droppables.

I dont see the need of Raid section as a separate upgrade. With the current setup - scope enfield, cap bouns... - why dont just put them in the pyrotechnics supplies upgrade ? And bring back the "recon section" fron vcoh. The pyrotechnics as currently be already say thet they get "field optics" and have a sight range bonus. Putting the scope lee enfield there make a lot more sense.

Suggestion:

Pyrotechnics supplies => Recon section.
Available without platoon CP for 45 muni ( as now.
Upgrade add: a scope enfield (take up 1 slot), 1.25 cap rate, sight bouns (already been in pyrotechnics), and remove cover mechanic. The artillery flare still require at least 1 building.


Further suggestion:
- Trench, sandbags. Caches and event emplacements (commander) can be removed from recon section, as they are now play light infantry role.
- The patch note dont state the moving profile of the new scope enfield. But make it long range oriented is not needed, too. Long range fight was never a weakness of section. The new scope enfield should improve what they not originally good at, namely moving. The new upgrade already remove the out of cover debuff, so give the scope enfield a G43-like profile would be better.

- while you already put three separate upgrades on section, why not just implement the section rework ideal of Mr. Someguy. Like, the pyrotechnics supplies can be change like i suggest above, the medic section now add an smg to take up 1 slot, and the current "raid section" change to something like "entrenching, tools", improve the build time for sandbags and trech.
- The section upgrade system would now look something like:
+ Recon section: Take 1 slot, add a scope enfield, capping and sights bouns. Removed sandbags and trench.
+ Field medic: Take 1 slot and add healing ability.
+ Entrenching tools: Improve building speed.

I like the way it sounds personally, I think it's a cool concept. I'm not sure about the speed buff, but I'm glad the Scoped Enfield is back in place.

the Churchill can have a pintle vicker K now ? why dont you make it an upgrade and let it replace the tank commander ? at vet 1 now the churchill can have both tank commander and top gunner sticking their head out, which lock very silly, and it make the grenade throwing animation look silly, too.

Suggestion: Vicker K pintle mounte upgrade replace tank commander upgrade.

At first glance some decent changes, here are some notes:

Raid Package added
; provides 1 scoped Lee Enfields, +33% capture and decapture rate and a 15% speed boost when not in combat. Removes the penalties for fighting out of cover, but increases construction time by 75%. 40 munitions."

Passive sprint should not be available to any unit (including USF officer).

"Churchill"

Does Churhcill really needs 5 mg and a grenade?

Infantry Section

With the lose of the capture bonus, we want to give the UKF player an ability to quickly retake territory through a unit upgrade. The Lee Scoped Enfield is there to improve the long-range effectiveness of the squad at the cost of short-range and moving firepower, while also preventing the squad from doubling up on weapon upgrades.

Raid Package added; provides 1 scoped Lee Enfields, +33% capture and decapture rate and a 15% speed boost when not in combat. Removes the penalties for fighting out of cover, but increases construction time by 75%. 40 munitions.

Scoped Lee Enfield DPS at 0/10/15/20/25/30/35: 2.81/3.11/3.24/3.36/3.5/3.67/3.84

I don't know why u want to buff the infentry section and help them to recapture/decapture even more easily , and I don't know why they had the capture bounces in the first place, the British already start with core mainline infentry squad in the beginning and that give them alot of advantages, this looks op .
any one can explain to me why this is necessary for the British?.

At first glance some decent changes, here are some notes:

["u]Raid Package added; provides 1 scoped Lee Enfields, +33% capture and decapture rate and a 15% speed boost when not in combat. Removes the penalties for fighting out of cover, but increases construction time by 75%. 40 munitions."

Passive sprint should not be available to any unit (including USF officer).

"Churchill"

Does Churhcill really needs 5 mg and a grenade?

I think it is ample strenght to have when the other option is comet.

When stack up with "raid operations" or "assault", the capture rate and sprinting speed of new raid section is really intense.

As an UKF main, i will gladly take it, but at the same time i have to say it not feeling right. The game should not be around blobbing but raid section is like designed to be blob hard with passive sprint, quick cap and no debuff out of cover. I can already came up with 4 raid section into bolster into AEC built by now.

Dont get me wrong, i welcome the reintroduce of scope lee enfield, but current design is very poor and unhealthy.

Give it G43 profile and put it in pyrotechnics supplies with the capping bouns for 45muni and 1 slot. That is enough. Dont create solution for a non-exis issue (section long range fight), instead, focus on the actual problem. By putting the scope rifle in pyrotechnics, you can offer a decent mobile fighting unit (which UKF lack), return the capping power and at the same time add a trade off to pyrotechnics itself and more depth into chosing upgrade for section.

Feels like this is just still trying to ignore/work around the real issue which is Bolster.


Overall i don't think the upgrade overcomes the healing utility/necessity of 1v1 while it might make them annoying on team games.

The 2nd weapon slot is over-rated OUTSIDE of real late late game scenarios.

First of all brit medics, if they get the ambulance heal are more than enough for healing (espacially in teamgames)

This thing will create even more issues becouse of the rec acc buff out of cover, and the moving speed. Combine that with a blob with high long range dps and abilities like assault you create a broken blob cocktail. Which is not what the britisch faction needs.

If you really wanna do this upgrate put it in pyrotechnics keep the rifle and capping speed 1.25. But remove the speed bonus and the out of cover thing.

Edit: I agree on the movement speed tho, although 15% speed isn't that much. I'd give them a sprint ability instead for 5-10 ammo.

I agree with you as well. Movement speed increases are elite infantry special veterancy territory. A squad sprint would be more inline with other infantry like Ambush Training OST Grenadiers.

the Churchill can have a pintle vicker K now ? why dont you make it an upgrade and let it replace the tank commander ? at vet 1 now the churchill can have both tank commander and top gunner sticking their head out, which lock very silly, and it make the grenade throwing animation look silly, too.

Suggestion: Vicker K pintle mounte upgrade replace tank commander upgrade.

Indeed, that's very strange. OKW Panzer Commanders lock out MG upgrades and vice versa.

"Raid Package added; provides 1 scoped Lee Enfields, +33% capture and decapture rate and a 15% speed boost when not in combat. Removes the penalties for fighting out of cover, but increases construction time by 75%. 40 munitions.

Scoped Lee Enfield DPS at 0/10/15/20/25/30/35:
2.81/3.11/3.24/3.36/3.5/3.67/3.84"


Let's look at positive and negative of this "upgrade":

Positives:
1-Passive sprint out of combat.
2-Fast cap/decap bonuses
3- +1DPS at maximum range compared to an unupgraded squad

Negatives:
1-31.5 seconds sandbag build time.
2- -2DPS at minimum range compared to an unupgraded squad.
3-Locks out both flare and medic upgrades.
4-Limits squad's weapon upgrades to only 1
5-Costs 40 muni.

Don't you think its negatives overshadow its positives, too?

This is no "upgrade". It's a downgrade. At best, it's a sidegrade.

This is no "upgrade". It's a downgrade. At best, it's a sidegrade.

Its a "compensation" for losing stock capping bonusm, which they had to begin with to offset lack of capping power due to expensive and low in numbers inf in early game.

Basically, if you don't get this upgrade asap, you'll be on backfoot in map control game, unless you get 2 REs instead of 1 to compensate for lack of numbers.

1. trenches
don't change its target size.
it is designed to endure bullets and shells, can be occupied by everyone.
And there is particular ways to counter it. The flamethrower, mortar, sniper, grenade and tanks.
making it can be destroyed by atg easily isn't good idea. it kills diversity of tactics.
The real thing should be increased its target size is unoccupied raketen.

2. sapper
I think it should have repair bonus on sweeper, too like ost su does.
In the final tech, cost for 70muni he gets 0.525. In otherwise, engis and pios get 0.3 for just 30 muni without teching.


3. Land mattress needs buff.
its scatter is big cuz it poured out the rockets at the same time.
But now, it shoots slowly and only 2-4 are landed on the same spot

This is no "upgrade". It's a downgrade. At best, it's a sidegrade.

Funny how out of all, you didnt mention removal of out of cover penalties, which is a huge buff to combat perfomance.

removal of out of cover penalties, which is a huge buff to combat performance.

Feel free to compare out-of-cover DPS and in-cover DPS of non-upgraded infantry sections. You might find out something interesting.

Their penalties only matter when equipped with Brens, where the cooldown and reload of the weapon is so long that the penalties actually create a difference.

The only "huge buff" they get is the 0.05 target size difference they get when in and out-of-cover.

snip

Can I ask why the balance team is repeatedly nerfing 4 man sections when the overwelming majority of players (even the anti-brit ones) admit 4 man sections are fine and bolster is the issue? The cap speed changes was implemented a year ago and crippled brits back then because you just flounder under a sea of volks/assgrens/ostruppen as you struggle paying the fuel for your now mandatory sidegrades.

Nobody likes building 4 tommies, bolster and AEC everygame. But really there's not any choices here with how 4men squads get cheesed so hard. Your current changes just reinforce this meta even more, just now it's weaker (possibly UP that valentine crutch is gone, making brits build medics squads also adds to their bloated popcap).

Brits issues before when they were unplayable always stemmed from how useless 4 man sections were, so why don't you change bolster rather than commiting to the same mistakes? you could reduce the capspeed on upgrade, make the upgrade selective so you can releave some popcap issues and play around with DPS and RA rather than nerfing 4 man squads every patch and making UKF unplayable until you revert the changes again.

Can I ask why the balance team is repeatedly nerfing 4 man sections when the overwelming majority of players (even the anti-brit ones) admit 4 man sections are fine and bolster is the issue? The cap speed changes was implemented a year ago and crippled brits back then because you just flounder under a sea of volks/assgrens/ostruppen as you struggle paying the fuel for your now mandatory sidegrades.

Brits issues before when they were unplayable always stemmed from how useless 4 man sections were vs easily spammable infantry combined with fast light vehicles (tommies still have no snare). So the british answer to this is spam capping inf, so you have enough fuel for bolster and AEC.

So why don't you change bolster? you could reduce the capspeed on upgrade and play around with DPS and RA rather than nerfing 4 man squads every patch and making UKF unplayable until you revert the changes again.

Bolster is an unfortunate albatross that, many people seem to think, holds UKF balance back. Apparently Lelic really doesnt want to let the Balance team just do away with the upgrade entirely, which really would be the optimal solution.

Removing a capspeed bonus upon Bolster would be basically pointless, by that stage the window where a capspeed bonus is most valuable is over (in 1v1), and reducing RA upon upgrade feels like a bit of an odd idea. It's very counter-intuitive to have an upgrade make models MORE vulnerable. Removing Bolster and balancing Tommies around their being five men (Or at least making five men the default and making Bolster do something other than increase squad size) would be the ideal solution, but it seems this is extremely unlikely.

Bolster is an unfortunate albatross that, many people seem to think, holds UKF balance back. Apparently Lelic really doesnt want to let the Balance team just do away with the upgrade entirely, which really would be the optimal solution.
...

Bolster does not have to go it simply should give squad the extra entity. That would allow the correct pricing for UKF units.

What do people think about the Assault officer?

snip

No you're wrong about relic not permitting changes because they adjusted bolster last patch, they locked it behind T1 but lets be honest that's hardly solving anything.

These are suggestions to stuff that could be tested out, then you could make bolster an upgrade option to counter stuff like sniper cheese. While also toning down other issues with the upgrade to achieve any small fixes where they are oppressive.

Either way I don't see how adjusting bolster isn't preferable to nerfing and reverting nerfs to 4man sections for years on end. It's been 4 years and it's clearly not worked, I think there was a fake Einstein qoute about that or something.