[Winter Balance Update] UKF Feedback

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2020, 05:32 AMSully

The raid package feels awkward to be honest. Logically I'd expect it to provide the best recon upgrade for tommies, but pyrotechnic tommies have considerably better vision range. I'm not sure increased capping speed and the ability to passively jog is worth it.

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2020, 06:45 AMGiaA

I feel like it's a really interesting idea but it needs some elaborate finetuning. An ammunition upgrade that actually reduces overall combat capacity is never gonna be viable. It also comes too late at 30 mun to really affect the early capping game. I feel like if the first Raid upgrade was free it could actually serve its purpose by increasing early capping speed while being a small handicap in early combat.

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2020, 06:45 AMGiaA

I feel like it's a really interesting idea but it needs some elaborate finetuning. An ammunition upgrade that actually reduces overall combat capacity is never gonna be viable. It also comes too late at 30 mun to really affect the early capping game. I feel like if the first Raid upgrade was free it could actually serve its purpose by increasing early capping speed while being a small handicap in early combat.

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2020, 14:46 PMthedarkarmadillo

Have the first Tommy already upgraded maybe.. Would have to provide some late game scaling though, bonus vs cover or something

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2020, 20:20 PMStark

Without specific number how would you design Raid Infantry Section upgrade?

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2020, 20:10 PMChocoboknight88

Call me crazy, but I believe the Heavy Mortar Barrage caused the normal barrage to go into a 120 second cooldown in my last game. Was this intended?

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2020, 17:21 PMGiaA

No...that's not the point. The point of Raid is to give Brits the OPTION for additional early capping power especially when using UC builds.

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2020, 20:20 PMStark

Without specific number how would you design Raid Infantry Section upgrade?

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2020, 21:16 PMthedarkarmadillo

iirc in coh/of tommies came preupgraded with the scout upgrade and it was fine. i know its a different game entirely but having a preloaded squad inst necessarily a bad thing. the ukf design is so absolutely fucked and will never be balanced because of bolster anyways that i dont see why we cant experiment.

Jump back to quoted post10 Dec 2020, 02:00 AMGachiGasm

By scrapping its whole idea, since it just can lead to potentual cheesing. And giving capture bonuses back ones either T1 is unlocked or upon upgdaring IS with medics\pyro.

I undertand that main idea behind raid package was to give IS capping speed back, but adding on top of that removal of out-of-cover penalties and sprint just to justify having this upgrade in the game competly unnessery.

Jump back to quoted post10 Dec 2020, 02:20 AMGiaA

Recon Tommies from CoH 1 have literally nothing to do with CoH2 tommies except that the game, faction and unit share the same name. It's also absolutely possible to balance brits.

my mention of coh/of was conceptual not Brit specific. The point was that there is precedent. Also, no, as long as the core unit of the faction is balanced spread across 4 models and 5 models as a global 1 off the faction will never be balanced. Pricing can't fix bad design. Either 4 man tommies will be UP or 5 man tommies will be OP. either bolster will be something you want to get ASAP or never at all. You can't balance a single unit across 2 power levels and have that at the center of the faction.

"potential cheesing" meaning what exactly? raid section spam? I don't see how giving brits some more variation in playstyle is "unnecessary".
tommies already have great stats. Giving them faster movement and removing their "balancing factor" (in quotations because it's already been gutted) has all the potential for cheese. It's either going to be abused in the a smelly cheddar or ignored entirely. I certainly commend the balance team for their outside the box approach but it's a bandaid attempt on a pulsing stomach wound. Bolster as a global is holding the faction back.

Jump back to quoted post10 Dec 2020, 03:07 AMGiaA

[...]
Why would 2 power levels separated by a global upgrade make Brits impossible to balance? The global upgrade just has to entail a sufficient trade off. (Price) If bolster is too strong increase its fuel price.
[...]

Jump back to quoted post10 Dec 2020, 06:19 AMMMX

this so often gets neglected or forgotten in discussions about the whole bolster conundrum, yet the price tag it is one of the most straightforward ways to adjust the timing/power level of the upgrade. of course it does result in a sudden power spike, but so does the first tank hitting the field. and as long as the cost is adequate both will mutually delay each other and force a tech decision to be made.
of course it can be argued that 5-men sections trade a bit too cost efficient at the moment, especially when hitting a critical mass, but this could also be offset by proper pricing, e.g. by implementing a higher reinforce cost after the upgrade to make 5-men sections slightly less economical.

Jump back to quoted post10 Dec 2020, 06:19 AMMMX

this so often gets neglected or forgotten in discussions about the whole bolster conundrum, yet the price tag it is one of the most straightforward ways to adjust the timing/power level of the upgrade. of course it does result in a sudden power spike, but so does the first tank hitting the field. and as long as the cost is adequate both will mutually delay each other and force a tech decision to be made.
of course it can be argued that 5-men sections trade a bit too cost efficient at the moment, especially when hitting a critical mass, but this could also be offset by proper pricing, e.g. by implementing a higher reinforce cost after the upgrade to make 5-men sections slightly less economical.

Jump back to quoted post10 Dec 2020, 08:29 AMVipper

But why go to all that trouble?
Why not use the same system already implemented?

Simply make bolster increasing the entity available without actually providing the entity similar to PG/5 men/6 AssG/ 7 men conscript.

That would make Pre and post bolster units have the same cost efficiency.

Jump back to quoted post10 Dec 2020, 08:29 AMVipper

But why go to all that trouble?
Why not use the same system already implemented?

Simply make bolster increasing the entity available without actually providing the entity similar to PG/5 men/6 AssG/ 7 men conscript.

That would make Pre and post bolster units have the same cost efficiency.

Jump back to quoted post10 Dec 2020, 08:39 AMGiaA

Why is it more trouble to increase the price of bolster than to completley change the way it works.