Profile of JHeartless

"simply moving backwards destroys that tactic. or some support"

Look you DO know how to Counter Ram! MVGame.

So basically we're suggesting an initial price reduction, 360 -> 320.
Possibly a reduction in upkeep cost.
And some minor AT ability at vet?

(On that, I was just thinking that they could have an AT ability that has quite a short range [smaller than AT nade], but disables the vehicles main gun. That way you could use them as a medium/long range unit that can punish vehicles that push into your lines, or use them as a tool for epic flanks, again punishing vehicles. It would also serve to delay (The FHT would just be able to drive away and get repairs) over aggressive use of say the FHT against t1, which still punishing you with good micro.) My one concern would be snipers + Penals obviously becoming a huge problem if you keep Penals sniper sitting. However considering this is a ~700MP investment, and would be vastly outranged/outgunned/out manouvered by the SC, it could be mitigated.

Edit: This would also synergise well with Ram.

Wow thats an interesting idea. That would totally suck to be on the recieving end of I would want it to be expensive as all hell.

Soviet need T2 for ZiS-3. T1 start is hard and if someone use it, want snipers. Another 360MP for another AI unit with no AT option is foolish.

So what price would you suggest?

@JHeartless
You may be right about the ISU152 but considering how much AI the soviets have, and how much MP you end up losing to mortars/flames/cons/snipers/ppsh/lucky zis/insert whatever it costs far more to be in the game and to pre-emptively tech to a panther.

it feels even more stupid to then actually build a panther when there is a majority of crazy infantry on the field. show a brummbär? and there is the IS2 already waiting.

and T85 will ALWAYS come before a panther. but considering their power or considering ram+at-nade you need to be 2v2 (tanks) to win that engagement unless you have shrecks (which you dont because of reinforce cost) or paks (which you don't because a T34 destroyed the entire gun in two shots).

anyways i'm just frustrated at playing soviets but still this is coming from a pretty average player (although i've played the series for years and thousands of games so i'm not completely retarded).

oh and my biggest problem is not even the un-viability of the panther but rather how soviets are all about elite infantry smoking PCP not giving any fucks. surpress a shock with an mg and unless in negative cover they will ALWAYS just crawl all the way to the mg and drop a nade in its face. but i dont want to litter the thread with more rants.

Katitof: seriously? as german, you never have 150 spare fuel just sitting around.

I dont think that Panther is the best Choice in 1v1 dont get me wrong. Nor are Shock Troops for the Soviets. They are pretty much equivalent to each other. The Panther comes out late is more expensive and is almost invincible to all but the heaviest tanks and or Ram.

Where STs are the LOL Smoke nading infantry killing Super Soldiers.

Personally I fear a Panther alot more than a P4. Because I can STOP a P4. Its stupidly hard to stop a Panther barring a Mine because the combination of its speed and frontal armor and the low pen of AT nades.

And your right its always funny to see Panthers when there are tons of Soviet infantry and Ost has none.

Its just a waiting game as you out cap and casually walk past the Panther...especially with STs.

I'd like them to have unique AT as well, but that is not going to happen I believe, since T1 seems to be designed as an anti-infantry tier. Which I like too, call me skizo.

But it also seems to me that people don't accept their strengths; they are cheap to reinforce and get the best offensive veterancy bonus in the game, along with a fuel-free building-counter. The difference between T2 with molotovs and T1 with flamers and satchels is 35 fuel in the initial fuel-race, which is quite a bit.

If those strengths can be made to work in-game, I dunno.

Their Strengths are early DPS at the cost of Capping power. Vet 2 does seem them significantly better. However as I have brought up the DPS drop off due to 1 armor model loss is not insignificant.

Also model per model even with Merge they are at MOST equal to reinforce to Grens. But again they have a high upkeep and pop cap that works against that and makes G43 grens more economical and a better choice for an infinite number of reasons.

They perform well. They dont perform well for manpower cost or opportunity cost.

But this puts Agrens in a weird spot too. They cant make Penals equal or cheaper than Agrens....you dont want their DPS to be above Pgrens (then Germans will have no unit thats king in the infantry realm)

But as an AI infantry they should at least perform better than a Generalist Infantry with a 60 muni upgrade.

Further if you give them AT then light vehicles will be in a bad way.

Its very very tricky.

This keeps putting me back to the idea that maybe they should get 3 SVTs that do more damage and 3 Mosins keeping the DPS the same and allowing the SVTs to die last similarly to the advantage Grens get with weapon upgrades.

This and lower their price but not cheaper then Agrens.