T4 and the Panther

also... Wehrmacht has no molotovs earlygame, and much smaller weapon crews.

Lol at Maxims take more micro than MG42. Repositioning the maxim is so fast, that I've seen many people using it to CAP points XD

If you need to reposition maxim more often then you need to reposition MG42 to keep the weapon effective then that is the very definition of requiring more micro.

Times have absolutely nothing to do with it.

Lol at Maxims take more micro than MG42. Repositioning the maxim is so fast, that I've seen many people using it to CAP points XD

Reposistioning takes Micro. Huge Arc takes no Micro....wow did I really have to explain that?

Yeah Huge arc..but the gunner has so slow reaction and bad supression that it compensates. Prefer the maxim over 42 any day.

That still doesn't change the fact that maxim is much more micro intensive.

How did this turn into a MG discussion? Anyhow:

Strangely enough right now: Maxim > MG42

I prefer something that´s good in a small arc rather than borderline useless in a wide arc of fire. Oh, and Maxims don´t have to deal with Oorah and deploy so fast, they can almost be used like a basic infantry squad.

Im disgusted about this German biased bullshit. The Fact is that Soviets mostly (with a few exceptions) get units with lower health but bigger numbers. Germans get the quality. Armor is considered to be the best thing about the Ostheer. You have a ton of non doctrinal variety, being able to get all non doctrinal units with simple straightforward T1 to T4 tech. While playing soviets, you get only 2 (!!!) dedicated AT units. And these force you to build certain tiers, making soviets less flexible in their unit composition.
Did i forgot to mention that soviet AT nades have lower penetration chance than Fausts? Did i forgot to mention the Elefant Germans can get, to ultra hard counter their already weak armor??

And i know that this sound very soviet biased. But im fucking ashamed of people who are just complaining when Soviets manage to counter their überunit. Stop saying that Germans require so much skill to play! Ask yourself a question : Which faction has to use weaker units (by stats) and depend on their abilities?

The factions are asymmetrical in their design to eachother. And its good how it is. I actually see this game being in a good balance state currently. Except the Elite doctrine which gives you the option to insta vet anything you have, at the same time giving you G43 and Smoke (!!!) at your disposal. Call in the mighty Tiger Ace for the ultimate German beasting machine. Oh, and soviet snipers. 2 man squads are breaking the balance - get 2 soviet snipers and see the Germans outright losing.

I hope you got the point of my post. Stop being biased dickheads.

That still doesn't change the fact that maxim is much more micro intensive.

Seriously? You just have to learn using the maxim different from MG42

(1) Use in choke
(2) Use in buildings
(3) Use TrueSight to ambush
(4) Use deep snow bullshit preventing flanking
(5) Much longer forgiving time against flank because nothing beside PG can wipe them down quick
(6) Use as aggressive weapon instead of defensive weapon, you just need to use the maxim to fire their bullets for 1 sec, suppressing the gren, then your cons can rape them, and change to another target

That joke "In Soviet Russia, MGs flank you", it can be true.

But MG42? Before T2, you need a backup MG42 protecting another MG42 from lolotov, only Gren cannot stop Cons flank. A successful lolotov land on MG42 face = Ostheer no longer own that area. COH2 MG42 is ultra micro intensive. There is no more MP40 Volks, 25 muni mines, For the Papaland saving your ass.

And i know that this sound very soviet biased. But im fucking ashamed of people who are just complaining when Soviets manage to counter their überunit. Stop saying that Germans require so much skill to play! Ask yourself a question : Which faction has to use weaker units (by stats) and depend on their abilities?

I disagree, all Soviet games I played is like

(1) Spam
(2) Flank & Swarm oooooorrrhhaaa, without risk
(3) Use ability, if almost dead, "T" (they are quite surprising durable)
(4) Get map control
(5) Camp at cutoff
(6) German died

There is no real quality > quantity in this game, if yes, Soviet should feel like Zerg, numerous but weak (that I loved in SC2), but in the end I feel like their speed and spamming natural like Zerg, but having the power of Protoss. If you play Starcraft you know what I mean.

But as playing Ostheer, I always need to take risk, worrying where would he flank, worrying when will he cut me off and need to come back and defend, worrying a partisan come out from nowhere fucking my support weapon, worrying mines squad wiping my hard vetting dudes, etc, etc. But I still prefer Ostheer because I feel like playing an RTS, not lazy faceslaping my opponent.

Seriously? You just have to learn using the maxim different from MG42

(1) Use in choke
(2) Use in buildings
(3) Use TrueSight to ambush
(4) Use deep snow bullshit preventing flanking
(5) Much longer forgiving time against flank because nothing beside PG can wipe them down quick
(6) Use as aggressive weapon instead of defensive weapon, you just need to use the maxim to fire their bullets for 1 sec, suppressing the gren, then your cons can rape them, and change to another target

That joke "In Soviet Russia, MGs flank you", it can be true.

But MG42? Before T2, you need a backup MG42 protecting another MG42 from lolotov, only Gren cannot stop Cons flank. A successful lolotov land on MG42 face = Ostheer no longer own that area. COH2 MG42 is ultra micro intensive. There is no more MP40 Volks, 25 muni mines, For the Papaland saving your ass.

Not really sure what you're on about, but thank you for giving even more examples why maxim is more micro intensive then mg42, I think by now Kronosaur0s realizes how stupid it was for him to think otherwise. Can we leave MG discussion out of panther debate now?

Im disgusted about this German biased bullshit. The Fact is that Soviets mostly (with a few exceptions) get units with lower health but bigger numbers. Germans get the quality. Armor is considered to be the best thing about the Ostheer. You have a ton of non doctrinal variety, being able to get all non doctrinal units with simple straightforward T1 to T4 tech. While playing soviets, you get only 2 (!!!) dedicated AT units. And these force you to build certain tiers, making soviets less flexible in their unit composition.
Did i forgot to mention that soviet AT nades have lower penetration chance than Fausts? Did i forgot to mention the Elefant Germans can get, to ultra hard counter their already weak armor??

And i know that this sound very soviet biased. But im fucking ashamed of people who are just complaining when Soviets manage to counter their überunit. Stop saying that Germans require so much skill to play! Ask yourself a question : Which faction has to use weaker units (by stats) and depend on their abilities?

The factions are asymmetrical in their design to eachother. And its good how it is. I actually see this game being in a good balance state currently. Except the Elite doctrine which gives you the option to insta vet anything you have, at the same time giving you G43 and Smoke (!!!) at your disposal. Call in the mighty Tiger Ace for the ultimate German beasting machine. Oh, and soviet snipers. 2 man squads are breaking the balance - get 2 soviet snipers and see the Germans outright losing.

I hope you got the point of my post. Stop being biased dickheads.

+1

How did this turn into a MG discussion? Anyhow:

Strangely enough right now: Maxim > MG42

I prefer something that´s good in a small arc rather than borderline useless in a wide arc of fire. Oh, and Maxims don´t have to deal with Oorah and deploy so fast, they can almost be used like a basic infantry squad.

This is what I was trying to say, +2.

That still doesn't change the fact that maxim is much more micro intensive.

perhpas but its still 10 times more effective then the mg42 in its current state. currently scripts just charge a mg and throw molotovs at it

Since when MG42 requires more micro than Maxim?
Yes you have to reposition MG42 sometimes, especially when you're using it more aggressive, but Maxim you have to adjust almost all the time because it's so easy just to crawl out of its fire arc. Maybe in 3v3 mode Germans just keep walking in a blob straight into your machine gun but that's definitely not the case on my ELO level.

Seriously? You just have to learn using the maxim different from MG42

(1) Use in choke
(2) Use in buildings
(3) Use TrueSight to ambush
(4) Use deep snow bullshit preventing flanking
(5) Much longer forgiving time against flank because nothing beside PG can wipe them down quick
(6) Use as aggressive weapon instead of defensive weapon, you just need to use the maxim to fire their bullets for 1 sec, suppressing the gren, then your cons can rape them, and change to another target

That joke "In Soviet Russia, MGs flank you", it can be true.

But MG42? Before T2, you need a backup MG42 protecting another MG42 from lolotov, only Gren cannot stop Cons flank. A successful lolotov land on MG42 face = Ostheer no longer own that area. COH2 MG42 is ultra micro intensive. There is no more MP40 Volks, 25 muni mines, For the Papaland saving your ass.



I disagree, all Soviet games I played is like

(1) Spam
(2) Flank & Swarm oooooorrrhhaaa, without risk
(3) Use ability, if almost dead, "T" (they are quite surprising durable)
(4) Get map control
(5) Camp at cutoff
(6) German died

There is no real quality > quantity in this game, if yes, Soviet should feel like Zerg, numerous but weak (that I loved in SC2), but in the end I feel like their speed and spamming natural like Zerg, but having the power of Protoss. If you play Starcraft you know what I mean.

But as playing Ostheer, I always need to take risk, worrying where would he flank, worrying when will he cut me off and need to come back and defend, worrying a partisan come out from nowhere fucking my support weapon, worrying mines squad wiping my hard vetting dudes, etc, etc. But I still prefer Ostheer because I feel like playing an RTS, not lazy faceslaping my opponent.

This soviet strat is exactly how you beat me a few days ago

No but honestly - MG42 is "decent" when there are two to back each other up. But since the Maxim can park outside your arc of fire and murder your MG42 without a single bullet reaching it I would say that the favor is leaning toward the Maxim.

There are maxim may not pin units quickly but it kills them faster, and soviets don't need to kill more units at the moment. Lose 1/4 grens = a 25% loss in DPS lose 1/6 scripts and its a 16% loss.
And you will most certainly have 5-6 conscripts (or mixed infantry) who can easily get around both MGs and molotov them. The fast reposition of the maxim and generally fewer supporting infantry makes flanking and being offensive much harder as german.

I know I've been getting my ass handed to me when I play germans (keep in mind I'm an average player) in this patch and when I switched to soviets, pretty much nothing can stop me from winning and I go on 3-4-5-6 win streaks without too much effort.

There are maxim may not pin units quickly but it kills them faster

It might be a surprise to you, but its not true.
Close range, MG42 wins in DPS, hands down, no competition.
At mid range they are equal.
At far its 3dps for MG and 6dps for maxim.
With incendiary rounds, MG42 is single most powerful small arms in game, leaving even DSHK close range with AP amo far behind.

It might be a surprise to you, but its not true.
Close range, MG42 wins in DPS, hands down, no competition.
At mid range they are equal.
At far its 3dps for MG and 6dps for maxim.
With incendiary rounds, MG42 is single most powerful small arms in game, leaving even DSHK close range with AP amo far behind.

Neither unit is good at killing and its merit should be solely on its ability to suppress

Ok guys! It's fine to get a little off topic, but we need to get back now. Panthers and T4 remember?

Hm. Maxim can be used with attack move you sillies, you don't have to take care of firing arc. If you try to just "attack move" your mg 42 than you will see it most of the time just deploying and redeploying. Not the case with Maxim. Further, I don't have an entire garrison next to MG42 like Maxim has (6 men!!) which means I must be extra carefull with flanking. And don't give me that "unit quality" shit because blasts and fire eat mg42 crew as easily as Maxim crew. Maxims require less micro than MG42. I don't mind that, I just mind when people are not thinking objectively. Period.

Comming back to Panther, I see no reason to be modified what so ever. If we take a general look to both factions tanks, they are pretty balanced. When we talk about balance we should think not only at tanks but also at all the weapons that can counter them. Who has the best tank destroyers in game?, Who has the best mines? Who has the cheapest tank destroyers or cheapest mines? Who has the best off map tanks? And so on. Focusing on just one tank, we can only reach a wrong conclusion.

Seriously? You just have to learn using the maxim different from MG42

(1) Use in choke
(2) Use in buildings
(3) Use TrueSight to ambush
(4) Use deep snow bullshit preventing flanking
(5) Much longer forgiving time against flank because nothing beside PG can wipe them down quick
(6) Use as aggressive weapon instead of defensive weapon, you just need to use the maxim to fire their bullets for 1 sec, suppressing the gren, then your cons can rape them, and change to another target

That joke "In Soviet Russia, MGs flank you", it can be true.

But MG42? Before T2, you need a backup MG42 protecting another MG42 from lolotov, only Gren cannot stop Cons flank. A successful lolotov land on MG42 face = Ostheer no longer own that area. COH2 MG42 is ultra micro intensive. There is no more MP40 Volks, 25 muni mines, For the Papaland saving your ass.



I disagree, all Soviet games I played is like

(1) Spam
(2) Flank & Swarm oooooorrrhhaaa, without risk
(3) Use ability, if almost dead, "T" (they are quite surprising durable)
(4) Get map control
(5) Camp at cutoff
(6) German died

There is no real quality > quantity in this game, if yes, Soviet should feel like Zerg, numerous but weak (that I loved in SC2), but in the end I feel like their speed and spamming natural like Zerg, but having the power of Protoss. If you play Starcraft you know what I mean.

But as playing Ostheer, I always need to take risk, worrying where would he flank, worrying when will he cut me off and need to come back and defend, worrying a partisan come out from nowhere fucking my support weapon, worrying mines squad wiping my hard vetting dudes, etc, etc. But I still prefer Ostheer because I feel like playing an RTS, not lazy faceslaping my opponent.

Truth in every single word. Bravo!

So I've played few 3v3 as a German recently, just for fun, and my God how bad majority of German players are. No tactics, no positioning, no setting up traps, only moving around the map in a blob straight into defensive Soviets positions. Mg42s as a spearhead unit, often left alone without any support, Tanks diving deep into enemy lines by themselves, Half tracks used as first line offensive units etc.
Occasional I'd get a decent player in my team and I would have a decent game but that's rare.
I don't even know what's the purpose of this post but at least now I know why there is such a big whine on this forum and overall opinion that Germans are underpowered.
-sigh-