Well i think its surviveability is too high for a unit with that much power and range. So I say, leave the power and range, but it needs to abandon at one man. I would be surprised if relic intended it to be able to retreat at one man, and if they did I would like to know why the other mortars aren't also like that. Was it a conscious decision or is it just a bug, that it doesnt get abandoned?
I'm pretty sure it's a bug. |
And they are worse vs KV8, deal with it...as I said germans are so used to the flexibility of their units that they get mad when there's a build that counters them
How about this guys? Why don't we add a flamer to the Panzer IV Command Tank that is equivalent to the KV-8's and remove the stubby gun on it? It has less armor, less hp, and costs nearly the same. Watch the crying start then.
It's not about whether or not the unit can turn the game around by itself (frankly, wtf kind of "balanced" unit would that be anyway). It's about the fact that no unit should be able to consistently insta-gib infantry squads in CoH. |
no they are the same, the faction durability against the nade are not
But it's all relative, don't you see? |
I though you say Maxim are ridiculously UP , I suppose you mean MG42
UP stands for underpowered, not underpriced, and I'm pretty sure everybody agrees the Maxim is a piece of shit.
Unless, of course, you're trying to sarcastically insinuate something in which case I couldn't care less. |
I actually think it favors Soviets because of the sheer number of houses.
The houses in the middle are a huge problem for both sides, but I see your point - Ostheer has a really hard time clearing houses if Soviets manage to take a bunch of them, unless lucky insta-collapse explosion.
The house at the bottom fuel point is especially unfair as the north player can easily rush for it and/or wire off the chokepoints. |
I am not crying, I am asking simple question that no one answers and ignores
How many times does everyone actually lose to KV8 commander? 20%, 50% 80%
I play both German and Soviets, usually I win vs KV8 and stop using it as Soviet because it fails me more times than not
p.s this sarcasm wasn't intended to people who use some fact and reason behind their argument.
(which as I said I agree with, KV8 is OP'd in everything you guys mention, but actual benefit of using it at the end of the game)
It doesn't really matter how often Germans lose to KV-8 commanders - the unit itself breaks one of the core concepts of CoH: allowing the player to press retreat on his infantry. This is a cause for concern no matter the circumstance - it'd be like saying in a MOBA game there's a hero that doesn't need to last hit to get gold.
I do agree with you that the Soviet faction is out-of-wack and the KV-8 at the moment is not swinging massive amounts of win percentage despite its ridiculous stats - doesn't mean it's going to stay that way after the next patch once they adjust things. At the current stage, several Soviet units are just ridiculously UP (cough, Maxim, cough) whilst others are ridiculously OP. That's just wrong no matter how you look at it.
P.S. In that case, I take back what I said. |
Relic please fix KV8!!!!
it doesn't matter how much it costs,
it doesn't matter which commander tree it comes in,
it doesn't matter does it actually make kv8 commander superior or not in the game
All that matters is: We have invested heavily in PG's and upgrades and now we have this unit on the field that kills them.
WTF??? Relic
Ohh, can we also fix this bug which doesn't allow Pg's to have shreck, LMG and flamethrower upgrade on the same unit, that would be nice 2. Maybe it could have one of those Transformer cars to get around the field
So now that facts are laid out before you, you immediately start crying in this manner to try and hide the faults present. Typical.
And here I was thinking you were better than that. Too bad. |
I never said I wanted guards buffed, I like guards and think they're fine. You know you just described one unit there, oh yes panzer grenadiers. That 360 mp 4 man super squad with stg44s that has the highest dps in the game and suffer no accuracy penalties on the move, only 2 units can stop then over priced shock troops or snipers. Enemy armor? That is easy panzershreks. Veterancy is gained from dealing damage 75% to be exact, which means in theory German troops vet faster due to their Superior, and veteran bounuses are more useful than the soviets, in addition to conscripts are still easy to kill regardless of being 6 man squads. Also you are obviously do not play Soviets or the game since you suggested the the Soviets have to pay 240 mp for a unit that is suppose to be use less and weak, the same price as a grenadier squad, I hope you realize you have to flank a tank for a successful at grenade. What if the soviet player don't go t2 for at guns and t1/t4 instead then what?
I suppose you think shocks are so hard right? Their ppsh suffer 50% accuracy reduction firing on the move, and they have no at capabilities, so they have to get t2 or they will get decimated. Shocks can dispatched by snipers, grenades, flame halftracks, tanks, and mg42s. Also shocks only turn into killing machines when they have the ppsh,which relic took out as a upgrade and made then automatic. I was against this from the start because the Soviets float munitions to begin with. I already said they should put the upgrade back at 80 instead of 60 munitions and the mp cost reduced the the 370-400 range.
When panzergrenadiers are upgraded with shreks they no longer do very well against infantry. You seem to be under the impression that they are still anti-infantry gods even when upgraded (not to mention, capturing a dropped shreck is deadly). By the way, grenades, mortars, and other explosions as well as sniper fire are very good versus panzergrenadiers due to four-man squad and reinforcement cost.
So when a Soviet player goes t1/t4 (hint: t4), they have no AT? What about that Su-85? Where'd that go?
When did I say I want conscripts to be useless? I even said that they're underpowered in the early game due to weak flanking, but that's a global problem and not restricted to conscripts only. But yes, when it is late-game, conscripts are meant to be used for utility, not for "ROFL-OORAH-FOR-THE-MOTHERLAND-KILL-EM-ALL!!!" That would be for Shock Troops to do. That and Soviets already have very good anti-infantry in the form of T34/T70/Katyusha (not to mention Su-76 barrage and M5 Quad) that they do not need conscripts to add to that. It's clear you've never used merge before if you think conscripts do not have utility.
You realize that Germans have to flank to faust Su-85s and that their grenadiers do not have a built-in movement speed boost, right? Also, take note that since AT grenades are lobbed they have a chance of hitting the rear armor regardless of direction thrown (mentioned in patch stream by PQ).
And no, I don't think Shocks are OP. That was just an example illustrating that it is illogical to compare vet 0 and vet 2 troops as a constant, no matter the circumstance. |
actually, instagibbing is exactly what they do. kv8s deal 18.2 dps compared to flame tracks only doing 4.3 dps with each gun. that means they do 200 damage in 6 seconds, more than enough to kill infantry without needing to reload. plus flamethrowers can crit, which instantly kills an entity regardless of its hp. both the dps and the crits have aoe, so its very possible to instagib. blobs will die quickly, but single squads die just as fast.
This pretty much says it all right here, with numerical evidence to back it up. Each entity under fire will take a maximum of 4.5 seconds to die and that's if and only if the flamer refuses to crit for that entire duration (which frankly, is unlikely).
What with input lag and retreat delays due to infantry AI being stupid, your troops probably won't start running until two seconds in. The better question is, how does the KV-8 not insta-gib? |
Guards also have an inferior dps to grenadiers.Also they can easily be defeated by panzer grenadiers and grenadiers. Did I mention that vet 2 German infantry have 2.25 armor? The same armor as vet0 shock troops.
It is true that Guards have inferior DPS to grenadiers with an LMG upgrade, but that's because they're an AT squad with a button ability when upgraded. Furthermore, a Guard squad's PTRS rifles is going to make the grenadiers jump around like no tomorrow, pretty much negating most of their damage (cuz the LMG takes forever to set up when the infantry AI freaks out). You seem to be implying that you want Guard squads to be 6-supermen running around killing everything in sight. Really?
Why are you comparing vet 0 troops with vet 2 troops? What kind of logic is this? That same shock troop squad has 3.5 armor at vet 2 and 4 armor at vet 3, making them pretty much invulnerable to small arms fire. Is that not enough?
Russians also have 6 men squads, making their troops a lot harder to insta-gib with mortars, grenades, etc., which means unit retention should be easier, so I don't see any reason to compare vet 2 German infantry with vet 0 Russian infantry as if that is always going to be the case.
As far as I can tell, the design choice of making conscripts not scale into late game is because the Russians already have enough anti-infantry as it is; they don't need more. Conscripts are supposed to be used as utility units in the late-game for merging with AT guns and AT nading. Other than their weak early game presence due to flanking being not rewarded properly, there is nothing wrong with them.
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