Give me a reason why KV8 is OP?

If soviet didn't prepare for PZIV, should they ask a PZIV nerf as well?

Apparently Yes, because it kills infantry easy and bullets just bounce of it

Relic fix Piv!!!!

It is indestructible, kills shocks, conscripts and everything else. There is no defense against it

WTF Relic!!!!!!

Please equip conscripts with free tomahawk missile call in to deal with this problem

I am not crying, I am asking simple question that no one answers and ignores

How many times does everyone actually lose to KV8 commander? 20%, 50% 80%

I play both German and Soviets, usually I win vs KV8 and stop using it as Soviet because it fails me more times than not

p.s this sarcasm wasn't intended to people who use some fact and reason behind their argument.
(which as I said I agree with, KV8 is OP'd in everything you guys mention, but actual benefit of using it at the end of the game)

It doesn't really matter how often Germans lose to KV-8 commanders - the unit itself breaks one of the core concepts of CoH: allowing the player to press retreat on his infantry. This is a cause for concern no matter the circumstance - it'd be like saying in a MOBA game there's a hero that doesn't need to last hit to get gold.

I do agree with you that the Soviet faction is out-of-wack and the KV-8 at the moment is not swinging massive amounts of win percentage despite its ridiculous stats - doesn't mean it's going to stay that way after the next patch once they adjust things. At the current stage, several Soviet units are just ridiculously UP (cough, Maxim, cough) whilst others are ridiculously OP. That's just wrong no matter how you look at it.

P.S. In that case, I take back what I said.

It doesn't really matter how often Germans lose to KV-8 commanders - the unit itself breaks one of the core concepts of CoH: allowing the player to press retreat on his infantry. This is a cause for concern no matter the circumstance - it'd be like saying in a MOBA game there's a hero that doesn't need to last hit to get gold.

I do agree with you that the Soviet faction is out-of-wack and the KV-8 at the moment is not swinging massive amounts of win percentage despite its ridiculous stats - doesn't mean it's going to stay that way after the next patch once they adjust things. At the current stage, several Soviet units are just ridiculously UP (cough, Maxim, cough) whilst others are ridiculously OP. That's just wrong no matter how you look at it.

P.S. In that case, I take back what I said.

I though you say Maxim are ridiculously UP , I suppose you mean MG42

It doesn't really matter how often Germans lose to KV-8 commanders - the unit itself breaks one of the core concepts of CoH: allowing the player to press retreat on his infantry. This is a cause for concern no matter the circumstance - it'd be like saying in a MOBA game there's a hero that doesn't need to last hit to get gold.

I do agree with you that the Soviet faction is out-of-wack and the KV-8 at the moment is not swinging massive amounts of win percentage despite its ridiculous stats - doesn't mean it's going to stay that way after the next patch once they adjust things. At the current stage, several Soviet units are just ridiculously UP (cough, Maxim, cough) whilst others are ridiculously OP. That's just wrong no matter how you look at it.

P.S. In that case, I take back what I said.

As I said, I play both German and Soviet.
And once (if) that happens, I will be the first one to join in and say KV8 is ruining balance of the game. Until then, I can't predict 'what if situations' as I have absolutely no clue what dev's are doing atm.......

I though you say Maxim are ridiculously UP , I suppose you mean MG42

UP stands for underpowered, not underpriced, and I'm pretty sure everybody agrees the Maxim is a piece of shit.

Unless, of course, you're trying to sarcastically insinuate something in which case I couldn't care less.

4CP is too early for a heavy tank. Should be 5CP.

Also needs the same style dps/duration/reload nerf as the FHT got to correct retreat ownage.

Cry about that all you want. Try to derail into "but its ok that its OP if its on a shit commander" or hyperbole about Shreks, or insulting other peoples intelligence. Like anyone cares.

The thing is even a player who is prepared for a kv8 is still gonna lose squads to it.

Even if you have a p4, shcreks, and paks out, the kv takes so long to die, it will still kill a lot of your infantry. Grens can't faust it, and the soviet will usually be able to suicide it into your base while the p4 is shooting at it and still be cost effective since it will easily kill 2 or 3 squads. Obviously if your p4 is on the other side of the map it will be even worse. The russian can also choose not to suicide it and back up after killing a few squads, making it even more efficient. The problem is not that it murders infantry, it is that it takes out whole squads in seconds even after retreating, so you cant reinforce them.

Also, not all german players rush for p4. This is a dumb and boring strat and remember it takes 225 fuel to get your first p4, when you include techng costs, compared to 135 fuel for kv. Now the kv does take 4 cps, but usually it will be out before a p4 comes especially if you didnt rush for a p4. I personally dont always go for p4 since paks and schreks are better vs su85. Now I have won against the kv8 and I have lost against it, it isn't unbeatable. However this is not the question. The question is wether the unit is too good for its cost, and whether it is slightly op.

The main problems are its cost efficiency, ability to one shot burn squads (very high dps also on retreat) and durability. The brummbar is laughable in comparison and is the closest german equivalent.

Not really. The KV-8 needs 4CP, the timing of which suprisingly falls together with the first PzIV. That's assuming the Soviet didn't tech and is still on tent. Since there is absolutely no reason not to spam PzIV as Ostheer, the best the KV-8 can attempt to do is a baserape.

wat?PIV at 4 CPs?that's one late PIV...

I personally dont always go for p4 since paks and schreks are better vs su85.

And they are worse vs KV8, deal with it...as I said germans are so used to the flexibility of their units that they get mad when there's a build that counters them

wat?PIV at 4 CPs?that's one late PIV...

A KV8 rush hits the field about the same time as PIV.
Doesnt need a building either, so its very efficient fuel.

And they are worse vs KV8, deal with it...as I said germans are so used to the flexibility of their units that they get mad when there's a build that counters them

Again, you are twisting what i said. I wasn't referring to counters, the main issue here is the cost efficiency versus the stats(armor/hp/flame damage/crits) of the KV8. Even when i get a p4/stug, It doesnt matter what units/build i got, the thing is gonna cause far more damage than it costs, and no coh unit should have the ability of one-shotting squads except due to sheer luck. KV8 one shots whole pgren squads as a rule and not as result of luck(even when retreating). The damage values explained above shows why this happens so often.

A KV8 rush hits the field about the same time as PIV.

ROFL. no way you can have 4 CP by 09:00

And they are worse vs KV8, deal with it...as I said germans are so used to the flexibility of their units that they get mad when there's a build that counters them

How about this guys? Why don't we add a flamer to the Panzer IV Command Tank that is equivalent to the KV-8's and remove the stubby gun on it? It has less armor, less hp, and costs nearly the same. Watch the crying start then.

It's not about whether or not the unit can turn the game around by itself (frankly, wtf kind of "balanced" unit would that be anyway). It's about the fact that no unit should be able to consistently insta-gib infantry squads in CoH.

I don't get it why people consider brummbär laughably bad. It's a stuH basically with perfect accuracy and capability to tackle/survive against most armour. Attack the ground with it.. it's a free nuke grenade dispenser.

ROFL. no way you can have 4 CP by 09:00

Check for yourself. Happens often.

Conscripts are not NEARLY as good as Grens once LMGs, and Vet show up combine that with a MG-42 in the backfield. So let's hypothetically say the KV8 got removed or nerfed so Heavily as every German Fanboy wants so badly. How exactly are Russians suppose to combat PG/Gren Spam? Oh they're all suppose to go with HTD? I mean the game is already extremely 1 dimensional with very little variation. The KV-8 is nice in that it offers a hard counter, and if you guys would actually look at the doctrines that the KV-8 comes out of you'd realize that it's a pretty weak overall doctrine compared to some of these more common German Doctrines.

OH and whatever that new counter to Gren/Pg Spam, it'll probably get whined and complained about within a few days or weeks and then we can have new postings of it such as this one ..... about it being OP blah blah wah wah... And then we're back to full circle....

It's about the fact that no unit should be able to consistently insta-gib infantry squads in CoH.

none does. a lot do if you don't insta-retreat

How about this guys? Why don't we add a flamer to the Panzer IV Command Tank that is equivalent to the KV-8's and remove the stubby gun on it? It has less armor, less hp, and costs nearly the same. Watch the crying start then.

It's not about whether or not the unit can turn the game around by itself (frankly, wtf kind of "balanced" unit would that be anyway). It's about the fact that no unit should be able to consistently insta-gib infantry squads in CoH.

Because that Tank didn't exist would you like to open up the discussion about adding laser beams as well? You are not adding anything by throwing in your Stupidity , Here the KV-8 has a Flame Thrower as well as the multiple variations of it:

KV-8 (42) – A KV-1 fitted with the ATO-41 flame-thrower in the turret, beside a machine gun. In order to accommodate the new weapon, the 76.2mm gun was replaced with a smaller 45 mm Gun M1932, though it was disguised to look like the standard 76 mm (The cannon was placed inside 76mm tube).
KV-8S (25) – The same as KV-8, but based on KV-1S. Was equipped with ATO-42 flamethrower (improved version of ATO-41).
KV-8M - Upgraded version of KV-8S. Was equipped with two flamethrowers. Two prototypes was constructed.

I don't get it why people consider brummbär laughably bad. It's a stuH basically with perfect accuracy and capability to tackle/survive against most armour. Attack the ground with it.. it's a free nuke grenade dispenser.

it's good but since germans already overpower soviet infantry with their own infantry and the good AI of their tanks there's never a real need for it.

It will be nerfed.
You will cry.
I will laugh.
Balance will be returned.