Give me a reason why KV8 is OP?

KV8s can attack ground with flame to detonate mines now as well, as I understand it.

KV8s can attack ground with flame to detonate mines now as well, as I understand it.

last i checked you could always do it.

last i checked you could always do it.

Flamethrowers only began detonating mines as of the most recent patch.

As for the Teller mine suggestion: LOL.

1) Russian player floats more muni beccause he doesn't rely on them as heavily as Germans
2) Russian mines cost 35, Germans cost 60
3) Teller mines are nice to have but you are relying on luck which is not a reliable way to play
4) Mines usually get detonated if anything (mortar, rifle nade, tank shell, etc.) detonates anywhere near them

That is not true at all, I blow through munitions like crazy... Moltovs, fire up, flamethrower upgrade, mines, Half Track Upgrade, Precision Strike (Mortar, Katusha, or Howtizer) , Bombing Run. Between all of that I NEVER float... Don't know what you're talking about floating, plus I've seen Stephen play constantly in 1 v 1's where he puts down tellers especially when he knows his armor is coming in late, and has made a point to not only announce it in his Live Feed but to also state that it's his Current form of Anti-Tank in a given moment/segment. He's done this CONSTANTLY... maybe not in anticipation for a KV-8 but in anticipation of any vehicle nevertheless....

And how can you honestly say that when you put down a mine you're relying on luck? I put down tons of Tellers to counter tier 3 rush, and they are well placed. A strategically placed teller is NOT luck... Are you going to say when I bate you into a Teller, that's luck too?

Flamethrowers only began detonating mines as of the most recent patch.

As for the Teller mine suggestion: LOL.

KV-8 always worked differently to infantry flamethrowers.

That is not true at all, I blow through munitions like crazy... Moltovs, fire up, flamethrower upgrade, mines, Half Track Upgrade, Precision Strike (Mortar, Katusha, or Howtizer) , Bombing Run. Between all of that I NEVER float...

You can burn through munitions late game with bomb strikes but early game Ostheer has so many more options to spend munitions on (that are more necessary and costly). As Soviets if you don't have a surplus going in to the mid game, you either squandered on abilities when you didn't need to use them like excessive use of oorah, ZiS barrage, and sniper flare, or you just did a bad job holding munition points.

And how can you honestly say that when you put down a mine you're relying on luck? I put down tons of Tellers to counter tier 3 rush, and they are well placed. A strategically placed teller is NOT luck... Are you going to say when I bate you into a Teller, that's luck too?

If you have "tons" of tellers in anticipation of T3, opponent must have played pretty badly. Either he had abysmal map control for the majority of the game, or he should have punished you for your lack of munitions spent on other things such as T2 vehicle upgrades, healing, Gren upgrades, etc. If you do have "tons" of tellers that is somewhat reliable but your opponent should be face palming for allowing you to get in to that position in the first place.

In most scenarios vs a competent player, you are relying on him driving in to 1-2 tellers which is definitely luck. You can probably count on him to hit it at some point in a long game, but it is definitely not going to be a reliable counter for a lone rushed vehicle. Maybe you can get some players to fall for your bait, but you will never tempt me to chase something over a point I didn't consider safe anyways.

Too bad all the teller mines in the world get cancelled out by a 20 munitions investment on my Engineer squad.

There's really nothing to argue one way or another. It consistently gibs entire squads regardless of vet in the blink of an eye.

That's it - end of story.

It doesn't matter if it costs 4000 MP and 8000 fuel. It doesn't matter if it comes out at the 45 minute mark. It doesn't matter if it's 12CP.

This is Company of Heroes, where unit preservation and veterancy and combined arms are key. Anything that does what the KV8 does, with small exceptions for lucky artillery strikes, completely breaks that aspect of the game.

How are people losing whole squads on retreat to a KV-8? Any form of armour will stop the KV-8 in its tracks and force it to pull back; i'm sorry but if you don't have armour by the time a 4 CP 135 fuel unit hits the field, you've probably already lost.

It doesn't matter if it costs 4000 MP and 8000 fuel. It doesn't matter if it comes out at the 45 minute mark. It doesn't matter if it's 12CP.

This is Company of Heroes, where unit preservation and veterancy and combined arms are key. Anything that does what the KV8 does, with small exceptions for lucky artillery strikes, completely breaks that aspect of the game.

Couldn't have said it better. Doesn't matter how much it costs, how weak the rest of the doctrine is, or what else can beat it. A unit that consistently instantly kills other units breaks the unit preservation mechanic of the CoH series.

Couldn't have said it better. Doesn't matter how much it costs, how weak the rest of the doctrine is, or what else can beat it. A unit that consistently instantly kills other units breaks the unit preservation mechanic of the CoH series.

A unit that consistently kills other units breaks the game.... the whole f**king definition of an effective unit is one which kills other units consistently.

KV-8s don't break unit preservation mechanics. For one, they don't insta-gib and really only deal huge amounts of damage vs blobs. They're also countered by virtually everything on wheels (Barring light armour). Just because you need combined arms to take down a unit doesn't mean it's OP.

If anything, the elefant is far more of a balance issue in that it can snipe soviet tanks from an uncounterable distance. Being at the top of the food chain in terms of armour and damage, it doesn't really have anywhere near the large amount of counters the KV-8 has and can only be defeated by forcing a mistake whereas a KV-8 will be raped by armour.

A unit that consistently kills other units breaks the game.... the whole f**king definition of an effective unit is one which kills other units consistently.

i dont think thats the definition of an effective unit. flamer tracks consistently instantly killed lots of soviet infantry, so it got nerfed multiple times. now it kills much slower. kv8 never got touched.

KV-8s don't break unit preservation mechanics. For one, they don't insta-gib and really only deal huge amounts of damage vs blobs.

actually, instagibbing is exactly what they do. kv8s deal 18.2 dps compared to flame tracks only doing 4.3 dps with each gun. that means they do 200 damage in 6 seconds, more than enough to kill infantry without needing to reload. plus flamethrowers can crit, which instantly kills an entity regardless of its hp. both the dps and the crits have aoe, so its very possible to instagib. blobs will die quickly, but single squads die just as fast.

They're also countered by virtually everything on wheels (Barring light armour). Just because you need combined arms to take down a unit doesn't mean it's OP.

really the only effective counters are stugs (which are rarely built) elefants/tigers (which show up much later) and panthers.

the only really plausible counters early on are stug and p4. i believe were talking about team games, in which the soviet teammates will have su85s which will be sniping those while youre bouncing shots off the kv8. i think everyone agrees that an su85 sucks at penetrating an elefant. well a p4 has a 3% better chance of penetrating a kv8.

If anything, the elefant is far more of a balance issue in that it can snipe soviet tanks from an uncounterable distance. Being at the top of the food chain in terms of armour and damage, it doesn't really have anywhere near the large amount of counters the KV-8 has and can only be defeated by forcing a mistake whereas a KV-8 will be raped by armour.

except the elefant lacks the mobility to have the same impact as a kv8. sure it can destroy tanks, if you decide to charge in front of it. if the elefant moves forward to attack, it will get flanked and killed. its a defensive tank. kv8 is offensive. whens the last time you saw an elefant charge into someones base?

You guys realize that the KV-8 is under the class of HEAVY-Tank right? It's HEAVY, that's above the grade of a Panther (Medium) ...

You guys realize that the KV-8 is under the class of HEAVY-Tank right? It's HEAVY, that's above the grade of a Panther (Medium) ...

yet for some reason your HEAVY tank costs quite a bit less than a medium tank...

actually, instagibbing is exactly what they do. kv8s deal 18.2 dps compared to flame tracks only doing 4.3 dps with each gun. that means they do 200 damage in 6 seconds, more than enough to kill infantry without needing to reload. plus flamethrowers can crit, which instantly kills an entity regardless of its hp. both the dps and the crits have aoe, so its very possible to instagib. blobs will die quickly, but single squads die just as fast.

This pretty much says it all right here, with numerical evidence to back it up. Each entity under fire will take a maximum of 4.5 seconds to die and that's if and only if the flamer refuses to crit for that entire duration (which frankly, is unlikely).

What with input lag and retreat delays due to infantry AI being stupid, your troops probably won't start running until two seconds in. The better question is, how does the KV-8 not insta-gib?

This pretty much says it all right here, with numerical evidence to back it up. Each entity under fire will take a maximum of 4.5 seconds to die and that's if and only if the flamer refuses to crit for that entire duration (which frankly, is unlikely).

What with input lag and retreat delays due to infantry AI being stupid, your troops probably won't start running until two seconds in. The better question is, how does the KV-8 not insta-gib?

its actually even faster. 18.2 dps is the average dps including reload, so its the more accurate dps over a long period of time. if you only count the time when its aiming (1 second) and actually shooting(5 seconds), the dps is actually 33.3. so it will take closer to 2.4 seconds to kill without any crits.

Relic please fix KV8!!!!
it doesn't matter how much it costs,
it doesn't matter which commander tree it comes in,
it doesn't matter does it actually make kv8 commander superior or not in the game

All that matters is: We have invested heavily in PG's and upgrades and now we have this unit on the field that kills them.

WTF??? Relic

Ohh, can we also fix this bug which doesn't allow Pg's to have shreck, LMG and flamethrower upgrade on the same unit, that would be nice 2. Maybe PG's could have one of those Transformer cars to get around the field and help out vs Infantry and Tanks

Relic please fix KV8!!!!
it doesn't matter how much it costs,
it doesn't matter which commander tree it comes in,
it doesn't matter does it actually make kv8 commander superior or not in the game

All that matters is: We have invested heavily in PG's and upgrades and now we have this unit on the field that kills them.

WTF??? Relic

Ohh, can we also fix this bug which doesn't allow Pg's to have shreck, LMG and flamethrower upgrade on the same unit, that would be nice 2. Maybe it could have one of those Transformer cars to get around the field

So now that facts are laid out before you, you immediately start crying in this manner to try and hide the faults present. Typical.

And here I was thinking you were better than that. Too bad.

Relic please fix KV8!!!!
it doesn't matter how much it costs,
it doesn't matter which commander tree it comes in,
it doesn't matter does it actually make kv8 commander superior or not in the game

All that matters is: We have invested heavily in PG's and upgrades and now we have this unit on the field that kills them.

WTF??? Relic

Ohh, can we also fix this bug which doesn't allow Pg's to have shreck, LMG and flamethrower upgrade on the same unit, that would be nice 2. Maybe PG's could have one of those Transformer cars to get around the field and help out vs Infantry and Tanks

If soviet didn't prepare for PZIV, should they ask a PZIV nerf as well?

So now that facts are laid out before you, you immediately start crying in this manner to try and hide the faults present. Typical.

And here I was thinking you were better than that. Too bad.

I am not crying, I am asking simple question that no one answers and ignores

How many times does everyone actually lose to KV8 commander? 20%, 50% 80%

I play both German and Soviets, usually I win vs KV8 and stop using it as Soviet because it fails me more times than not

p.s this sarcasm wasn't intended to people who use some fact and reason behind their argument.
(which as I said I agree with, KV8 is OP'd in everything you guys mention, but actual benefit of using it at the end of the game)