Relic! Message from STAVKA!
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Posts: 73
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And why the hell all russians wants their army in game be overpowered as fuck. I have enough of playing WoT and War Thunder made by russians, their balance is more broken than we have right now in CoH2
Posts: 598
the only real problem is, that grenadiers have an lmg that totally decimates conscript squads, while the conscripts does not have the same kind of upgrade. other than that, things are fine.
i think relic interpreted the red army perfectly when comparing it to the german army. soviet troops are generally weaker but they have a large arsenal of anti infantry weapons. soviets should NOT have an armor upgrade.
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Permanently BannedSo that 1.5 armor, 4 man Gren unit penis look very small?
(Guards are 6x1.5, btw)
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Guards also have an inferior dps to grenadiers.Also they can easily be defeated by panzer grenadiers and grenadiers. Did I mention that vet 2 German infantry have 2.25 armor? The same armor as vet0 shock troops.
It is true that Guards have inferior DPS to grenadiers with an LMG upgrade, but that's because they're an AT squad with a button ability when upgraded. Furthermore, a Guard squad's PTRS rifles is going to make the grenadiers jump around like no tomorrow, pretty much negating most of their damage (cuz the LMG takes forever to set up when the infantry AI freaks out). You seem to be implying that you want Guard squads to be 6-supermen running around killing everything in sight. Really?
Why are you comparing vet 0 troops with vet 2 troops? What kind of logic is this? That same shock troop squad has 3.5 armor at vet 2 and 4 armor at vet 3, making them pretty much invulnerable to small arms fire. Is that not enough?
Russians also have 6 men squads, making their troops a lot harder to insta-gib with mortars, grenades, etc., which means unit retention should be easier, so I don't see any reason to compare vet 2 German infantry with vet 0 Russian infantry as if that is always going to be the case.
As far as I can tell, the design choice of making conscripts not scale into late game is because the Russians already have enough anti-infantry as it is; they don't need more. Conscripts are supposed to be used as utility units in the late-game for merging with AT guns and AT nading. Other than their weak early game presence due to flanking being not rewarded properly, there is nothing wrong with them.
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I suppose you think shocks are so hard right? Their ppsh suffer 50% accuracy reduction firing on the move, and they have no at capabilities, so they have to get t2 or they will get decimated. Shocks can dispatched by snipers, grenades, flame halftracks, tanks, and mg42s. Also shocks only turn into killing machines when they have the ppsh,which relic took out as a upgrade and made then automatic. I was against this from the start because the Soviets float munitions to begin with. I already said they should put the upgrade back at 80 instead of 60 munitions and the mp cost reduced the the 370-400 range.
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I never said I wanted guards buffed, I like guards and think they're fine. You know you just described one unit there, oh yes panzer grenadiers. That 360 mp 4 man super squad with stg44s that has the highest dps in the game and suffer no accuracy penalties on the move, only 2 units can stop then over priced shock troops or snipers. Enemy armor? That is easy panzershreks. Veterancy is gained from dealing damage 75% to be exact, which means in theory German troops vet faster due to their Superior, and veteran bounuses are more useful than the soviets, in addition to conscripts are still easy to kill regardless of being 6 man squads. Also you are obviously do not play Soviets or the game since you suggested the the Soviets have to pay 240 mp for a unit that is suppose to be use less and weak, the same price as a grenadier squad, I hope you realize you have to flank a tank for a successful at grenade. What if the soviet player don't go t2 for at guns and t1/t4 instead then what?
I suppose you think shocks are so hard right? Their ppsh suffer 50% accuracy reduction firing on the move, and they have no at capabilities, so they have to get t2 or they will get decimated. Shocks can dispatched by snipers, grenades, flame halftracks, tanks, and mg42s. Also shocks only turn into killing machines when they have the ppsh,which relic took out as a upgrade and made then automatic. I was against this from the start because the Soviets float munitions to begin with. I already said they should put the upgrade back at 80 instead of 60 munitions and the mp cost reduced the the 370-400 range.
When panzergrenadiers are upgraded with shreks they no longer do very well against infantry. You seem to be under the impression that they are still anti-infantry gods even when upgraded (not to mention, capturing a dropped shreck is deadly). By the way, grenades, mortars, and other explosions as well as sniper fire are very good versus panzergrenadiers due to four-man squad and reinforcement cost.
So when a Soviet player goes t1/t4 (hint: t4), they have no AT? What about that Su-85? Where'd that go?
When did I say I want conscripts to be useless? I even said that they're underpowered in the early game due to weak flanking, but that's a global problem and not restricted to conscripts only. But yes, when it is late-game, conscripts are meant to be used for utility, not for "ROFL-OORAH-FOR-THE-MOTHERLAND-KILL-EM-ALL!!!" That would be for Shock Troops to do. That and Soviets already have very good anti-infantry in the form of T34/T70/Katyusha (not to mention Su-76 barrage and M5 Quad) that they do not need conscripts to add to that. It's clear you've never used merge before if you think conscripts do not have utility.
You realize that Germans have to flank to faust Su-85s and that their grenadiers do not have a built-in movement speed boost, right? Also, take note that since AT grenades are lobbed they have a chance of hitting the rear armor regardless of direction thrown (mentioned in patch stream by PQ).
And no, I don't think Shocks are OP. That was just an example illustrating that it is illogical to compare vet 0 and vet 2 troops as a constant, no matter the circumstance.
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+1 OP if nothing else than for your creativity and writing skills
You don't read something like this on forums everyday
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No one appreciates my creativity, and for the 2nd time I am not Russian. Conscripts have the same health as grenadier and they only have 2 extra models which are very easy to kill. German infantry are only vulnerable when there is a sniper on the field, if anything one can argue Soviet infantry are more vulnerable then German infantry. This combat is NOWHERE near vcoh between rifleman and grenadiers what game are you playing? Soviets should have an armor upgrade conscripts are the main infantry unit you will be using and they are terrible in that role, unlike grenadiers due to their superior durability and lmgs.
giving the conscripts an armor upgrade would be a mistake! they have more hp and more abilities, giving the conscripts an armor upgrade would make them a lot more superior than a grenadier squad. the problem with their survival is, as that i mentioned before is how the the grenadier lmg slaughters them. just so you know the riflemen in vcoh also die easily, they have 55 hp per man compared to a grenadiers 80 hp per man.
the only other problems are that conscripts have can't kill support teams and that they have to pay for their abilities. if they aren't killing fast enough it's not because of their dps. their dps is fine, it's their accuracy that's is terrible.
i don't appreciate your creativity because you are wrong in many aspects, and i have not called you a russian at all.
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Permanently BannedCons and Grens have the same effective survival.
The 6man 1 armor vs 4man 1.5 armor statistically balances out.
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Posts: 170
Posts: 409
Ignoring nullist, who has nothing better to do with his life then to troll Soviet threads. Like a child.
Relic has already said many times that conscripts have the same survivability as grenadiers. Get that into your head and take a leaf out of your own book.
Posts: 170
Guards also have an inferior dps to grenadiers.Also they can easily be defeated by panzer grenadiers and grenadiers. Did I mention that vet 2 German infantry have 2.25 armor? The same armor as vet0 shock troops.
Vet 2 german infantry actually have 1.5*2.25=3.375 armor at vet 1
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