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Even if you can't land the AT nade, a conscript provides area denial against the armored car because the player will be afraid of getting naded. Same thing with other vehicles.

This is something that a lot of players fail to take into account. Let's say you have an AT gun, a T34, a Guard Rifle, and an Engineer at a certain key position and let's say I have two Panzer IV's and a grenadier squad. What's preventing me from simply rolling up my tanks, circling the AT gun, and crushing your entire force? If the guards try to button, I'll just pop smoke and now you're pretty screwed. You can ram one of the Panzers and get a kill there but you're still pretty much screwed.

Now, if you had a conscript squad there instead of the engineer, I can't roll up those tanks because I'll get AT naded for sure. That's the difference a conscript squad makes and that's why they're still useful even in late game. The same is true for grenadiers, which is why I prefer them over panzergrenadiers, even though those guys are "OP."

Even if you can't land the AT nade, a conscript provides area denial against the armored car because the player will be afraid of getting naded. Same thing with other vehicles.

This is something that a lot of players fail to take into account. Let's say you have an AT gun, a T34, a Guard Rifle, and an Engineer at a certain key position and let's say I have two Panzer IV's and a grenadier squad. What's preventing me from simply rolling up my tanks, circling the AT gun, and crushing your entire force? If the guards try to button, I'll just pop smoke and now you're pretty screwed. You can ram one of the Panzers and get a kill there but you're still pretty much screwed.

Now, if you had a conscript squad there instead of the engineer, I can't roll up those tanks because I'll get AT naded for sure. That's the difference a conscript squad makes and that's why they're still useful even in late game. The same is true for grenadiers, which is why I prefer them over panzergrenadiers, even though those guys are "OP."

If I have left over squad of conscripts from start, ofcourse I will use it the best way I can..
If I am playing some noob that isn't very good at multitasking, I will buy conscripts and upgrade them with AT nades because I can use them vs him
I am arguing here validity of buying conscripts past first few minutes........

Playing someone better, I will save my MP for rifles.. thank you very much

P.S. in situation you presented you can most likely roll my ass with damaged engine 2, but I do see your point. However, there are also situations where i need to fix that t34 or SU85, where extra eng is quite useful. I also don't float my ammo as Soviet or German. I use it on mines, upgrades and nades at any opportunity (float about 50-100 max for nades)

.. So yeah, Point was: "why would you chose to build conscripts over eng?" I can't see good reason to do so, can you tell me one?

The reasons are obvious:
- AT Nade
- Molotov
- Oorah
- Merge
- Cons are far more cost effective at 6man, for purchase cost. CEs only 4
- CE DPS is shit, iirc. About same as Pios, and categorically lower than Cons

Im pretty surprised these need to be explained to you.

CEs are a repair, mining, construction and combat support unit, not an actual combat unit.

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I think the joke is going too far.

He was right about the "Conscript" thing though. I mean in a modern, total war like WW2 which country don't conscript their solders.

The reasons are obvious:
- AT Nade
- Molotov
- Oorah
- Merge
- Cons are far more cost effective at 6man, for purchase cost. CEs only 4
- CE DPS is shit, iirc. About same as Pios, and categorically lower than Cons

Im pretty surprised these need to be explained to you.

CEs are a repair, mining, construction and combat support unit, not an actual combat unit.

Fair enough, tho we were talking about mid-late game and my point was I would much rather spend my MP and get rifle guards than conscripts.
Where I disputed that I can do all the capping with eng + clear mines, lay mines and repair vehicles as opposed to suggestion that Conscripts can cap faster because of oorah and damage Piv engine.
I said that Conscripts are semi-useless in mid-late game and for me, a lot better option would be to have rifle guard-eng combo than waste MP on conscripts.. and that I cant see good reason to do spend my MP on conscripts........

Yeah, mid to late Cons are meat shields, cappers (of weapons and points), and AT naders.

I figure thats why Sov has Doctrinal infantry. They carry the slack from then on.
Penals will, imo, almost certainly get adjusted sooner or later.
CEs perform pretty much the same duties throughout the match, as do Pios.

I dont know who you are playing VS, but I would be extremely disappointed in myself if I allowed squad of grens to freely come in behind my t34 and then fire of pfaust at it.
That situation would result, vs any decent player, in you losing your grens to T34 without firing of that pfaust.

Your theoretical analysis and scenario only do one thing and that is, you don't actually play as Soviet and haven't actually tried to put it in practice.

-You cannot AT nade scout car, only promote it. so conscripts are useless
-You WILL suffer high losses with low possibility attempting to AT nade damage Piv engine. Semi-useless
-you can cap points with conscripts late game but eng are much better option to have: you can have flame, mine sweeper (mind you, some people actually mine their points as defensive measure) plus you can reapair and build stuff. Why would you chose conscripts?

So yeah Conscripts are semi-useless and rifle grens and eng are much more versatile combo to have

do you know that this game has truesight? and if you cannot see my grenadiers hiding around the corner and get panzerfausted would you still be disappointed?

I haven't played soviet? how the hell did you come up with that conclusion? i used grenadiers as an example because you can do the same thing with conscripts but a lot easier since you would have oorah. soviet scout car giving you a problem? can't catch that thing with grenadiers! german scout car giving you a problem? you have oorah!

yes people do mine their points, but it's more difficult to defend your point with mines when you're german, teller mines does not detonate on infantry, and s-mines are just a waste. the only real reason you would get a mine sweeper for engineers is to remove that one teller mine that could change the game, not to cap points. why would i use conscripts over engineers? just take a good guess!

if you are going to complain about conscripts not being able to AT nade a tank, just remember it's a lot harder for grenadiers.

"s-mines are just a waste"

Simply not true. I wouldn't have believed it myself until i got roflstomped by two Germans in a row using S-mines in an innovative fashion. They kill snipers. They kill entire units. Woah betide the soviet who loses a unit of pioneers behind their lines.

It is the same people who wont admit the Germans are just the better faction, Great frontine troops with lmgs and good veterancy bonuses, mgs that supress and does more damage then maxims and turbo mortar s.

It is the same people who wont admit the Germans are just the better faction, Great frontine troops with lmgs and good veterancy bonuses, mgs that supress and does more damage then maxims and turbo mortar s.

hahah vet bonuses are identical for infantry at vet 3.

do you know that this game has truesight? and if you cannot see my grenadiers hiding around the corner and get panzerfausted would you still be disappointed?

I haven't played soviet? how the hell did you come up with that conclusion? i used grenadiers as an example because you can do the same thing with conscripts but a lot easier since you would have oorah. soviet scout car giving you a problem? can't catch that thing with grenadiers! german scout car giving you a problem? you have oorah!

yes people do mine their points, but it's more difficult to defend your point with mines when you're german, teller mines does not detonate on infantry, and s-mines are just a waste. the only real reason you would get a mine sweeper for engineers is to remove that one teller mine that could change the game, not to cap points. why would i use conscripts over engineers? just take a good guess!

if you are going to complain about conscripts not being able to AT nade a tank, just remember it's a lot harder for grenadiers.

sure its lot harder for Grens. I don't have problem with scout car, i just don't use conscripts for that (it tears them appart)
My point was why would you spend MP on conscripts, rather save MP for rifle grens and eng, a lot better, effective and versatile option for me.....
I just don't see benefit in that. For me they die to fast in mid-late game, and even tho they are cheap they drain MP overall. (one Piv round kills 3-4 instantly, before you say WTF you got your self vet2 Piv to deal with)

One piv round kills 3-4 instantly? What game are you playing?

By that logic a t34 would wipe grenadier squads with one shot all the time as well.

removed by user apon review.

One piv round kills 3-4 instantly? What game are you playing?

By that logic a t34 would wipe grenadier squads with one shot all the time as well.

Me plays COH2, you? Piv kills 3-4 Conscripts with one shot, very very often. It almost never kills more than 1-2 Rifle guards or Shocks with one shot.......

I don't see how you logically concluded that T34 must wipe out grens with one shot....

Because they are are both tanks shooting @ infantry? or because T34 is better?

I don't see how you logically concluded that T34 must wipe out grens with one shot....

Because they are are both tanks shooting @ infantry? or because T34 is better?

Because T34 has better AI stats. Pretty logical, eh?

You really should take some proper time to familiarise yourself with what different units actuak factual capacities are.

Me plays COH2, you? Piv kills 3-4 Conscripts with one shot, very very often. It almost never kills more than 1-2 Rifle guards or Shocks with one shot.......

I don't see how you logically concluded that T34 must wipe out grens with one shot....

Because they are are both tanks shooting @ infantry? or because T34 is better?

ha do you realize how you contradicted yourself there?

tanks dont care what infantry theyre shooting at. armor is irrelavent. so shooting cons/guards/shocks is all the same. they all die in 1 hit since they only have 80 hp. so either youre exaggerating cons or exaggerating guards/shocks. i think its the first one.

he very logically concluded that t34 would wipe grens in 1 shot because based on your claims, a panzer 4 can wipe 4 men in a shot very consistently. a t34 has less scatter than a p4 (meaning its better vs inf), with the same aoe, so it should kill an entire squad of grens if what you say is true...

ha do you realize how you contradicted yourself there?

tanks dont care what infantry theyre shooting at. armor is irrelavent. so shooting cons/guards/shocks is all the same. they all die in 1 hit since they only have 80 hp. so either youre exaggerating cons or exaggerating guards/shocks. i think its the first one.

he very logically concluded that t34 would wipe grens in 1 shot because based on your claims, a panzer 4 can wipe 4 men in a shot very consistently. a t34 has less scatter than a p4 (meaning its better vs inf), with the same aoe, so it should kill an entire squad of grens if what you say is true...

You can't just jump in into 3 page conversation, highlight one sentence, point finger and declare it crime against reason.

If you did read rest you would also know that these conscripts we are talking about are oorah-ing their way over open ground/road towards Piv (there were mentions of supporting PG's, etc as well) to throw AT nade on it.

even if other infantry is guarding the tanks ( which is how a good player should operate anyways ) the conscripts have enough men to throw an at nade and run out of there before the squad gets wiped

Now I can stay away from Piv with rifle guards, in cover not point blank in front of the Piv on freeking red cover road............

Does it still sound as stupid?
edit
I probably should have added that I wouldn't just charge Piv with rifles (Personally I wouldn't just charge it with conscripts with oorah, but hey thats what was suggested as good tactical use for conscripts

Because T34 has better AI stats. Pretty logical, eh?

You really should take some proper time to familiarise yourself with what different units actuak factual capacities are.

even if other infantry is guarding the tanks ( which is how a good player should operate anyways ) the conscripts have enough men to throw an at nade and run out of there before the squad gets wiped

There are also some other factors involved, like accuracy (short, medium, long range)

Not exactly sure does cover play part, but terrain influencing accuracy certainly does (more likely to miss if infantry in ditch)

Etc, agree?

which plays big difference between me sitting in ditch @ medium-far range with rifles as opposed to charging Piv with oorah to point blank distance. Most likely head on over the road or open terrain

No, those dont affect that stat relationship between T34 and PIV AI, at all.

I dont understand why you are talking about charging a tank frontally. Why would you do that?

Move out of LoS, and nade it if it overextends.

The point of AtNading/Fausting a tank, is to disable it to prevent it pushing, or to enable your hard AT to deal with it.
The Nade/Faust dmg itself is not sufficient, and doesnt count as hard AT.

I dont get your point.

Can you please repeat it in a clear and concise statement?