mortar team balance

Jump back to quoted post4 Sep 2013, 08:36 AMAlbus

The 120mm is fine as it is. It's in a crappy doctrine, it fires incredibly slowly, its DPS is virtually non-existent considering how often this thing misses and the basis of the unit is RNG.

Apart from the occasional Insta-gib, the 120mm really doesen't pose much of a threat due to its low rate of fire, accuracy and cost (12 ***** pop! Huge drain on your MP income).

This is the only Soviet weapon an Osteer player would sacrifice whole/damaged squads to retrieve. A 120mm in osteer hands would be completely uncounterable with the soviet arsenal. Nothing wrong with one man survivability.

Jump back to quoted post28 Aug 2013, 13:59 PMEndeav

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApmrrrPr20ncdEpuSHcxNko1VGVFYjczYXpFZWhqOHc#gid=1

It barrages a hell of a lot faster than you think (fastest barrage speed in game, slowest regular shooting)

Jump back to quoted post4 Sep 2013, 11:37 AMH_Stickeye

we

Jump back to quoted post4 Sep 2013, 11:37 AMH_Stickeye

I understand it is frustrating watching it retreat, however I have seen this last guy get killed upon retreat many times.

Jump back to quoted post4 Sep 2013, 12:10 PMNullist

Who the fuck is "we"?

Jump back to quoted post4 Sep 2013, 12:22 PMMauser

DISCLAIMER: please people read the thread topic, it is about the squad retreating at one man, not about nerfing other stats of the 120mm. People keep whining that the 120mm shouldnt be nerfed. I agree its damage/range need not really be nerfed, it is more about the ability to retreat at one man, and how it is the only mortar with that ability
(which is also, as a side note, completely unrealistic since it weighs 280kg)

Jump back to quoted post4 Sep 2013, 09:12 AMGreenDevil

What do you mean us people?

Jump back to quoted post4 Sep 2013, 12:49 PMtuvok

This doesn't make any sense, to judge whether a unit is OP you have to take in account all of its sides.
A unit is either OP or not, you can't say "the unit is fine but it's ability is OP".
Does its ability to retreat at one man allow it to kill everything on the screen? No, it doesn't, it just makes it a durable unit, deal with it.
Still, since it's not that deadly the unit is still balanced.
I don't understand why you compare it to other units to prove a point while it doesn't prove anything.

Jump back to quoted post4 Sep 2013, 13:03 PMMauser

Well i think its surviveability is too high for a unit with that much power and range. So I say, leave the power and range, but it needs to abandon at one man. I would be surprised if relic intended it to be able to retreat at one man, and if they did I would like to know why the other mortars aren't also like that. Was it a conscious decision or is it just a bug, that it doesnt get abandoned?

Jump back to quoted post4 Sep 2013, 11:13 AMTensaiOni

Are you sure this is correct?

If you check the mortar abilities, it's using "sync_mortar_barrage_120mm_mp" ability as it's barrage.
In ability file, it says it's using hardpoint number 2 of the weapon.
Back to weapon, hardpoint 2 is "hm_38_120mm_mortar_barrage_mp" weapon which is actually different than what you are using in your spreadsheets (which is "hm_38_120mm_mortar_barrage_slow_mp" and for some reason, despite being "slow" it's faster than normal barrage!) - it has about half the "potential DPS" if that's the case.

You can check the differences here: "slow" barrage and here: normal barrage

Jump back to quoted post4 Sep 2013, 13:03 PMMauser

Well i think its surviveability is too high for a unit with that much power and range. So I say, leave the power and range, but it needs to abandon at one man. I would be surprised if relic intended it to be able to retreat at one man, and if they did I would like to know why the other mortars aren't also like that. Was it a conscious decision or is it just a bug, that it doesnt get abandoned?

Jump back to quoted post4 Sep 2013, 14:33 PMEndeav

Hm, the mortar stat sheet was done several weeks ago, it very well may be that I opened the wrong file to get the barrage number. The two axis mortars have a 0 reload on barrage, so I probably didn't double check the file I was looking at when I saw 120mm have 0 reload.

Thanks for the catch.

Jump back to quoted post4 Sep 2013, 13:03 PMMauser

Well i think its surviveability is too high for a unit with that much power and range. So I say, leave the power and range, but it needs to abandon at one man. I would be surprised if relic intended it to be able to retreat at one man, and if they did I would like to know why the other mortars aren't also like that. Was it a conscious decision or is it just a bug, that it doesnt get abandoned?

Jump back to quoted post4 Sep 2013, 18:53 PMUGBEAR

In fact, I want to see both faction have 3 men crew, and then we can do the asymmetrical balance, right know, weapon support teams (especially MG42 and pre-nerf maxims) render rifle squads useless

Jump back to quoted post4 Sep 2013, 22:13 PMOZtheWiZARD

Yet another whining thread on these few decent Soviet units left.
How about we fix these MG's in 2v2 and German tanks blitzing with damaged engine?
Lets change 120 mortar in another Maxim so Germans have easy time playing with each other as soon there will be no Soviet player to play this game.
BTW, anyone knows ETA on the next patch?