You guys are sadly missing the bigger picture because you get so lost in meaningless minutiae.
Balance team has jedimindtricked every coh2 player ever into thinking that artillery (mobile or static, doesn't matter) is the way to victory since most maps are designed around lanes and shotblockers.
But when talking about retarded factions like USF, where they have literally zero selling points (early LVs? haha stop coping most factions have 1 atgs and 2-3 snares by the time the first aaht rolls out) theory gets thrown into the gutter.
All that happens is that you have an airborne doctrine which is used wrongly since it's based around a single path squad laying Relays for free Airborne reinforcement and instead you just spam the scout unit (kinda like Stable -> Scout spamming in AOE2) without giving a fuck about anything else.
Well guess what faggots? Axis factions can do this better by default. Yeah, everything you think USF can do in terms of Mortar+Sight combo, Axis can do in everything else.
How about that? How about them apples? I have zero problems with path spamming since I have long ago learned how to counter it (or /l it if shit gets rough) that I really do not give a single fuck about it.
USF used to be really good 3-4 years ago but after that it got so fucking limited and nerfed that nowadays it can survive only with pathspamming.
In essence what I am saying is that Long Vision Range is a SYMPTOM of a general DESIGN PROBLEM IN COH2 that is SMALL MAPS with LANES and SHOTBLOCKERS.
Nobody complains about long vision being "cancer" when they spam 2-3 120mms and rape the fuck out of poor axis soldiers. Nobody complains about long vision being "unfair" when they build a static artillery piece and then using VISION LOITER from the SAME COMMANDER to rape OKW trucks/base (I am talking about Counter Attack and Soviet Combined Arms).
But when it comes to axis NOPE let's spam coh2 dot org about our petty little problems.
That's the gist of the matter and it will not be solved because the propaganda, brainwashing and betrayal of coh2 fanbase is way too far completed to be reversed. I do not hope for anything different in coh3 since it looks pretty meh and uninspiring.
Personally, I do not worry since better days are coming and in a couple of years peace will be restored and since I am a high priest of the forces bringing it I will ascend to my rightful place.
The problem is the introduction of True-Sight in COH2, the map designs and faction designs only make the problem worse. The maps make positioning absolutely vital, fight for the wrong areas of a map and you're gone. |
Having plenty of experience with all factions means jack sh** for bias. Every person on this forum has some sort of bias towards a certain goal. This whole thread is just a biased rant. Outplaying wehr as allies is only possible in 1v1s (I'm assuming you only play 1v1s). Try to outplay wehr on a map like Port of hamburg where an early MG can lock out one part of the map and force you into mortars which means you lose in the long run as you'll severely lack DPS and capping power (cause hamburg design does not allow flanks). You can check the accuracy table of each and every AT gun and use the target size of different vehicles to compare how often who hits whom. You'll notice that it's all in the ballpark
You would know about bias, considering you are probably the 2nd most Soviet biased pundit on this forum. Katitof takes the cake on that one.
The hypocrisy you are spewing is unbelievable. |
the most effective way(without dorctinal) to coutner sniper is use sniper to counter.
/thread really, you answered your own question. |
This is false. OKW have a much better opening than USF does. Especially with the amount of Bleed a Kubelwagon can do. Factor in the power spike from Volks STGs, the fact that you will generally have more units on the field than a USF player as well as access to things like Fallshirmjaeger/JLI early on in a match make USF/OKW one of the most difficult matchups in the entire game (for USF). Hence why OKW have significantly higher Win Rates (I believe its at 60%) compared to USF.
What does OKW vs USF win rate % have anything to do with my opinion that USF infantry is superior to OKW's. You have a Captain squad which is extremely versatile, combined with Rifleman with BARS, nades, smoke - how are you not winning against Volks? |
1. I mentioned this one multiple times
2. with 640/800 HP and 230 armor it is everything BUT a glass cannon. None of the other 60 range TDs gets any survivability bonus. Why does the JP4 need it?
3. Again, Axis mediums can go toe to toe to damaged Allied TDs to finish them of. Additionally, the Panther is suitable for deep dives and getting it out alive afterwards.
4. Again, as all other TDs are. This is nothing special to the JP4, so this is no reason to explain its performance.
None of these builds you suggested will really be worth it. Even with such an investment, you will not be able to kill the JP4. And if you consider that the OKW player will have JP4+Raketenwerfer, your USF and SOV combo will not be enough and lose over time.
Deep medium dives are the only option against the JP4. Your TD won't kill it, your ATG won't chase. Handheld AT will likely not do enough damage (unless you go double ranger bazooka blob). Even double ATG (unvetted) builds will only have ~50% kill chance with their first two salvos against an unvetted JP4 and that is already assuming all shots hit. Once the JP4 vets up, there is barely any way to get that much damage in in that short amount of time.
Your best non-doc chance is to dive far behind this thing (even from the side you might get front armor and ~50% bounce chance). And you're diving against the faction that has a quick snare on basically every mainline squad. Best outcome for an Allied player is to trade slightly up with a medium for the JP4. From my experience there is a decent chance that the dive fails and you just lose the medium, so that this strategy overall is more often than not a trade down.
USF vs OKW has been a balance problem from the outset. Mucking around with the JP4 is not going to fix balance.
I see you didn't mention a Zis-Gun and a single SU85 hard counters the JP4. Throw in a couple Penal squads with AT Rifle and it's no longer a problem.
With USF, yes they might struggle against a JP4, but the USF has such an infantry advantage over OKW it should not need to get an ATG and a Jackson to kill the JP4.
Another point you failed to mention are the maps, certain maps provide excellent opportunity to use the JP4 effectively, other maps do not.
Yeah. I admit it's not a glass cannon, but it doesn't do the damage of one either - so it's balanced.
You could easily use a Sherman bulldozer to tank damage whilst your M10's swarm it. More options include Rifleman with zooks, double ATG's or double Jackson's and Rifleman charge to spot. So many options to counter the JP4. |
Then formulate proper arguments why and where my logic is wrong. I've given multiple viewpoints on the JP4 throughout this thread, there is no "vacuum" comparison.
My point is that I am having no real issues with my JP4 against ATGs. They can hamper the effectiveness, but are no real threat. Even a double tapped JP4 can still win against a counter-diving medium unless it is completely unsupported. This issue is exacerbated at vet2.
You are forgetting the JP4's main weaknesses:
1. Turretless, therefore very flank-able and extremely vulnerable from behind.
2. It is a glass cannon, +160 HP at Vet 2 is warranted as it takes skill to use it properly in it's only role which is a TANK DESTROYER.
3. If Allied mediums are trying to go "toe to toe" frontally against JP4 and get beaten off, this is normal.
4. Extremely vulnerable to AT infantry.
If I was Soviet playing against you, I would use a ZiS AT Gun supported by SU85 in spot mode and your JP4 is toast. If I was US I would use ATG with a Jackson. If I was British I would ATG and FF or send in Churchill with 2000 HP for a meat shield and plug away at you.
Just because you are using one unit particularly well, doesn't mean it is OP. Some players are braindead and don't know the counters. |
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You are focusing too much on the unit in a vacuum. The JP4 is not OP at all, and is fine just how it is. Don't touch it.
If you are having a problem with JP4 then you aren't using AT Guns. End of story. |
Where do we start? This game features several factions that have mortars. The Soviet faction has a doctrinal mortar - HM-38 120mm Mortar Squad. While every unit in the game has certain disadvantages and conditions, this mortar has no disadvantages and conditions.
1) HM-38 120mm Mortar Squad can retreat to base;
2) Squad strength of this mortar is 5, while the Minimal crew is 1;
3) Mortar barrage - Range of Fire - 95, and GrW 34 - 75 (for comparison)
4) HM-38 120mm Mortar Squad has Delayed Fused Rounds
Fires the heavy high-explosive rounds that detonate shortly after impacting the ground. (no commander, for comparison, the 7.5cm le.IG has an Incendiary Barrage in only one doctrine)
5) Reinforce Cost - 15
RESULTS:
HM-38 120mm Mortar Squad has a high firing range, excellent survivability (squad strength, retreat capability, minimal crew - 1), excellent AOE, ability without a commander. Similar units are vulnerable to flank attacks by assault infantry (not always assault), all units with the exception of the HM-38.
SUGGESTIONS:
1.increase Reinforce Cost to 22
a) minimal crew - 2
or
b) cannot retreat
or
c) reduce range to 75
or
d) reduce AOE damage
The weaknesses and big weaknesses you didn't mention is that it is awfully inaccurate and fires very slowly. If you keep relocating your forces, you will be fine. |
Man, when i see a teammate/enemy using 3 storms i know they either suck or are memeing, and besides i am not even that high of a rank in 4v4 now(700s with ober i think) and i never seen more than 2 being used in ages.
Your logic is broken.
|
Mortar should be a hard counter to MG spam but currently It's not. (especially USF vs MG42 spam)
Mortar are relying on RNG and its power is not enough to push MG back before you lost whole territory.
Flanking with Rifleman is still probably the most powerful and also rewarding skill to learn in COH2. Once you learn how to do it, you will never complain about MG's again. |
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