Profile of GreenDevil

Lately I have either been having extremely bad luck or I need a better strategy to deal with Allied Tank Destroyers late game.

Firstly, I have been using 2 or 3 Sturmgeschutz III Ausf. as mainline AT, supported by PG's to stop flanking. Even after the StuG's are Vet level 3 - Allied tanks come out like the Comet and these StuG's just bounce off the front armour. As an example, I had 4 shots bounce off in a row against a Comet.

I find that I can't really delay for long enough to get a Panther, which is only marginally better at penetration anyway.

Additionally, the M36 seems to easily outrange and outgun my StuG's as they always seem to penetrate the front armour, in return I usually get a bounce or two when trying to engage them and lose the battle. Pak40 is ineffective late game as it will simply get bombarded into scrap or overrun by infantry.

Do I need to get an Elephant as the only means to fight back against a competent Allied player who kites with their TD's and stays at range?

It's important to remember that Penals still cost 290 Manpower and even in teamgames where Fuel and Munitions resources are heavily inflated that you don't gain any additional manpower to field more units. When you upgrade PTRS on your Penals they turn into a very weak AI squad that will lose a 1v1 to Grens in any reasonable scenario. (The only situation where PTRS Penals can deal enough AI to win a fight vs Unupgraded Vet 0 Grens is when they're Vet 3 which is a ridiculous fight that should never happen.)

PTRS Penals are actually incredibly inefficient since you have to take one of your valuable mainline infantry units and turn them into a dedicated AT unit, and even in the instance where you can use them on LV's you're still not particularly happy because you have to severely sacrifice your Anti-Infantry capability to do so, and because anymore than 1 PTRS Penals will decimate your ability to fight infantry, your opponent can simply avoid that squad and fight elsewhere or otherwise dispose of it through the usage of Machine Guns or focus fire with infantry which leaves you without proper mobile AT on the field.

Also worth considering that others have pointed out that going Penals means you're skipping the Tier 2 Building which denies you access to Zis Guns which are a significantly stronger and more efficient tool in the Soviet Arsenal for dealing with vehicles and the Zis Barrage is a powerful AI resource in it's own right for dislodging team weapons and units in cover.

Just from a cursory glance from your problem, you might be playing your Pak40 too aggressively if it can regularly be flanked by the T70, alternatively you might not be supporting it enough with infantry since the PTRS Penals won't be able to push off your Grens in any realistic fight. You might also be lending way too much credence to spreading your army out wide instead of focusing specific areas to actually take and control ground. You're also not making any mention of the 222 which while it will lose to PTRS Penals and the T70, is an amazing tool for vision purposes allowing you to see how your opponents army is situated which is valuably information since it can sight for your Pak, and help you move your infantry into advantageous positions, same can be said for any recon abilities. You could also be taking poor infantry engagements where you aren't using proper cover, or where while in a 1v1 PTRS Penals will lose to Grens, multiple PTRS Squads will simply overwhelm you due to spreading your forces too thin vs amassed army.

Thanks for your suggestions, much appreciated. I scout as much as I can with Pioneers, but this is more often then not a futile exercise. With the Soviet B4 commander, I am not fighting against simply 3-4 Penal squads. Throw in a Shock troop squad or two, that come VERY early and a German defensive position quickly becomes untenable. I would love a nice cheap, over performing vehicle like a T70 to constantly kite the Russian and cause manpower bleed.

Are you some kind of weirdo who gets T1 then T2 then T3 and then T4 as soviets?
I can't see any other way that comment would confuse you so much.


In T2.
ATG is in T2.
You don't get T1 AND T2 together before early late game.

Mines are deterrent to reckless vehicle use, NOT AT weapon, AT nade is NOT AT weapon.

Do you also want to suggest that PG shrecks should be T4 locked? Because that's how stupid your suggestion sounds.

How can you argument something with someone who thinks AT Nade and mines aren't AT weapons?

Because it was a high time for soviets to get an actual, real AT infantry, especially considering the fact that you have to severely delay ATG for that infantry.

But Soviet didn't need REAL AT infantry - they have a good AT Gun from T1 and cheap mines and Cons with AT nade, Penals with AT Satchel and now PTRS upgrade that comes too soon and is too good. Fine, give them a PTRS but lock it behind T4 tech for late game.

This is from 2's, 3's and 4's.

Why are PTRS performing so well now? They easily counter Axis mediums, plus they get the AT Satchel. From what I have seen lately, all Russians do is make 2 clown cars, 3-4 Penals with PTRS and rush a T70, make a B4 and a few T34's and grind you down. Ostheer are unable to recover from early manpower bleed to put up any kind of resistance, unless they get lucky.

The maps need to be changed alongside the balance changes. If munitions are now the most important resource for Ostheer - to allow fausts, shreks, LMG to fight the Russians hordes early. A vast majority of maps, make this task for Ostheer almost impossible.

The design of the Ostheer faction needs some love. If Soviets are allowed such versatility in early game:
1. Cons from HQ
2. Penals, clown cars and snipers from T1
3. MG, Mortar and AT Gun with barrage ability from T1

Oh and if something goes wrong, Soviet can skip all tech straight to T4 - Katyush

Too many options for Soviets, not enough options for Ostheer. Why do Soviets need two front line, extremely versatile infantry units available from T0 and T1 respectively.