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Thread: Panzerfusiliers Need Adjustments27 Aug 2019, 21:06 PM Jump back to quoted post27 Aug 2019, 20:57 PMBlueKnight Ober MG34 is available to a significantly more expensive infantry and much later in the game. You are complaining about G43 upgrade but it actually allows PFs to beat Penals in a fair fight in the early game, gives PFs one additional model, extra sight and good mobile dps which makes wiping retreating squads easier. Cost-wise everything is in its place. 280 MP inf with 90 MU is a good price for a good squad. Compared to the past PFs' performance, PFs are just more flexible and available earlier. Refering to your example: Assgrens are super strong with their sprint and early timing, if you sprint you win any engagement with any infantry unit in the early game except for Assengies maybe, but they don't have sprint. Pathfinders only benefit from slow long range engagements unless you upgrade them with BARs and so do PFs until you upgrade them with G43s. All of these units are either not flexible being short/long range specialists, lack snare and have high entry cost. I think that Assgrens should have their sprint behind vet 1. I know that they are supposed to allow T1 skip or early army supplementation, but they are comparable to cons with PPSh, who are currently coming at 3CP (soon to be 2CP). I think it was a classic example of powercreep with the Assgrens having a sprint available at vet 0. it's u who said to compare them to those units, then u backpadle when i do ? im not complaining about the g 43 upgrade im complaining about the base mp cost of the unit, why it's the only unit that needs to pay for the extra men twice (in the base cost and the upgrade)? and no compared to previous PF they have 1 less men and so what? those unit are priced fairly and it's not like fusi wins at all range, they have strictly worse dps than volks at mid and close range In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Panzerfusiliers Need Adjustments27 Aug 2019, 21:00 PM Jump back to quoted post27 Aug 2019, 20:49 PMSkysTheLimit Uhh wrong, no snares... Maybe they scale as well in your opinion, but still waiting for the explanation on what it has to do with volks vs. fussies Fusiliers are great. Idk how anyone could think they're not good enough uh wrong no mines, flamer, scooped rifle, art call in, radio map hack ......... literally the mod team as it's planning to reduce the price already btw again u could just read my post in page one,i explain why they are bad there btw i know u see any axis unit op , duh it has a cross on it,just looking at ur post history tell me all i need to know In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Panzerfusiliers Need Adjustments27 Aug 2019, 20:44 PM Jump back to quoted post27 Aug 2019, 19:52 PMSkysTheLimit Okay? What does this have to do with fussies vs. volks? Fussies are cp0, none of those "elites" are As for the cp0 squads, name one that scales as well as fusiliers. Or that has a scare ready to go. There aren't any assault eng and pathfinder In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Panzerfusiliers Need Adjustments27 Aug 2019, 20:42 PM Jump back to quoted post27 Aug 2019, 19:31 PMHannibal While I'm not sure if the Panzerfusilier design is perfect, they are a very good unit. They come out slightly worse than Volksgrenadiere, but scale way better with their upgrades while also giving the option for an early AT nade. They're cheaper to reinforce than Riflemen (which you compared them to), and also they have six men. In your comparison with Grenadiere, you're also neglecting that they have a higher health pool. Grenadiere have 480/0,91 = ~351 effective health, Panzerfusiliere have 680/1(is that correct? not quite sure) = 480 health, so about a third more while Grenadiere do "only" 10-20% more damage with the upgrade, depending on the range. Also the DPS dropoff with model loss is less on Panzerfusiliere due to the squad size. It is debatable if this justifies the 45 mun that you pay, but with the upgrade they are very cost effective. Also, few other factions can generade such a big one the move wipe potential as OKW with G43 Panzerfusiliere. And to your point if scaling and utility should be considered for pricing: Yes, they should. This was also the reason why Conscripts were pretty shitty for the last years, because they were "versatile". Which they are. The problem is that you need to pay extra for that versatility, which caused a ton of other issues. You also defended the Volks vs Riflemen balance in a previous discussion because you could bar up Riflemen which would help in the long run. So in other discussions you also added the perspective of scaling to unit performance and cost. u forgot that p fusi are 5 men not 6, the 6th comes only with upgrade and I did I mean it's 90 munitions for the upgrage i don't know where u get the 45 muni cost In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Panzerfusiliers Need Adjustments27 Aug 2019, 18:53 PM Jump back to quoted post27 Aug 2019, 18:39 PMSkysTheLimit Who's talking about nades? I said snares bud, and most doc squads don't get those at all.... cause most doc units are elite ? most doc unit comes with nades and upgrades already unlocked they just need to pay In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Panzerfusiliers Need Adjustments27 Aug 2019, 18:25 PM Jump back to quoted post27 Aug 2019, 18:24 PMSkysTheLimit You get the snare without any tech, that's a pretty huge bonus over volks most doc units get nades without tech (and really not worth the 30-20 more mp and worse dps) In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Panzerfusiliers Need Adjustments27 Aug 2019, 17:46 PM Jump back to quoted post27 Aug 2019, 17:18 PMMr Carmine Haha care to elaborate on that? u could actually read the whole thread, i made it the page before this In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Panzerfusiliers Need Adjustments27 Aug 2019, 17:45 PM Jump back to quoted post27 Aug 2019, 17:25 PMBlueKnight ........ ober LMG is a much better upgrade than worse g43 and 1 more men, just for comparison, g 43 for green cost 45 mun and are better than pfusi and the cons upgrade give cd bonus in cover, bonus experience and reduced reinforce cost for 50 mun, u would have a point if the upgraed was soo good that it justified the base cost in mp, it is not again they literally are 1 more men and worse g 43 for 90 muni i think that was the point for the mod team, a substitute for volks , right now they cost too much for their dps , either reduced price or increase dps , if they want to make them different just copy paste rifle garand and again the logic of being eraly so they need to be bad is stupid, do ass green, pathfinder and ass eng perform as bad a pfusi cause they come early ? they are not elite units, they are worse penals In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Panzerfusiliers Need Adjustments27 Aug 2019, 17:33 PM Jump back to quoted post27 Aug 2019, 16:28 PMGrumpy Wow, just wow. ur point ? In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Panzerfusiliers Need Adjustments27 Aug 2019, 15:34 PM Jump back to quoted post27 Aug 2019, 15:30 PMGrumpy Sounds good. Then take away the G43 upgrade and Panzershrek upgrades and give them a PTRS upgrade. Or don't compare units in a vacuum. I'd be surprised if the balance team considers upgrading the starting performance of PF's to match Volks. They've been trying to avoid making "no-brainer" units and that would definitely make them a no-brainer. They scale better than volks and are fine as is. no they are not fine they are overpriced, cons have better scalling than volks do they cost more even if they are worse ? In: COH2 Balance