No it's not. The problem with that was that OKW had extreme early game pressure also due to Sturmpioniere and that the more expensive squad needs to close in to a unit that can build green cover. Another point is that Volks got StGs earlier than Rilfes get BARs unless you delay tech.
Here, the more expensive squad does not need to close in, Instead, the cheaper squad needs to close in to a squad that can not build cover. The only thing that is the same is that the cheaper squad is better off slugging it out long range. While they might lose, they enable other squads to cap. Also they don't run into sturmpios. But Cons don't get a power spike and Füsilier upgrading does not delay tech
well fusi are doc unit tho |
Why do you repeatedly take what other people say, and then hold different people who didn't say it accountable for those other people's comments? Totally ridiculous
i did not make names or talking to someone specific, did u fell personally involved ?  |
I adressed all of this already.
Cons have effectively only 40 HP more due to higher RA, which is 10% more than the Füsiliere.
At range 5, Füsiliere have 10% more damage than Cons, at ALL above ranges, Füsiliere have more than 10% more DPS. I also already adressed the fact that Conscripts are favored due to their 6th man and the less DPS loss with model drop. But please don't tell me that you truly believe that this can compensate the the DPS difference up to range 35.
And again: How often did you run the test? Did you also run it without cover? Do you have data on that and would you share it with us?
have run it without cover but didn't test much
https://imgur.com/a/4kLyIGz
as test are generally indicative stats already prove that they will lose close and mid as they have similar dps 13,2 vs 13, 8 at 16 range but one has 80 more hp (and more RA but even then the dps difference is not enough to overcome the hp barrier as shown in the test) |
i really think panzer fusi needs a price reduction or a better rifle https://imgur.com/a/tO7E0oW
this is literally pre patch volks vs pre patch rifle but reversed
now with the nerf to okw man power this will be felt even more |
Cons have more or less 60% of far PF DPS. If your PFs lose to cons you are taking an engagement at a wrong distance or with insufficient cover. You can keep Sturms next to your PFs if you are afraid of Cons charging you.
Cons will get reduced RA at vet 1 because their scaling is being made more linear, just like PGrens' vet bonuses were adjusted last patch. The vet 1 RA bonus for Cons will just bring them to starting RA of many mainlines. Volks get RA reduction at vet 1 too and they too have sandbags and don't have to pay a fortune for basic tools like snare. Why are you so fixated about this topic?
i did test and as u can see mid and close range are won by cons and long range is barely won by pfusi they may have less far dps but 1 more man means 80 more hp and another rifle
cause that's the reason why people wanted to nerf volks and buff rifle, this is the same situation but roles are reversed, guess what people say it's fine cause star>cross |
I can see that a less than 50% health squad has 67% of his models.
How often did you run the test? Do you have data on that?
You did not adress the stats that I argumented with from the site that you are using as well for your arguments. What do you say about this?
that u did not account the fact that cons have 1 more man than fusi, the extra men give them and edge in the fight thanks to more dps and 80 more hp, making them win at mid and close range and almost draw at long range |
btw i like to play this card now that i did some testing
>why do cons beat pfusi even tho they cost more to reinforce and base ?
>why do cons have base snad bag and RA at vet 1 which they can achive during the fight ?
>pfusi will always bleed vs cons as they cost more to reinforce
for reference https://www.coh2.org/topic/94987/riflemen-need-a-buff-or-volks-need-a-nerf/page/3 |
Yeah I got that now, too. Have you also compared them without cover/yellow cover? From what I know cover tends to be more random due to model drops, which should favor larger squads.
Conscripts have about 10% more effective health than Füsiliere. The site that you use says that Füsiliere always have higher DPS than Conscripts, and at most ranges way more than 10% (5m is the point where they break even in that regard). This of course does not account for DPS loss in model drops, so Conscripts are favored at 5m. At higher distances, Füsiliere should win.
Also I think that the Sturmpionier compensates quite a lot.
I'm not saying that Füsiliere are worth 280 MP for their vanilla power, but they're worth it for their scaling.
actually u can see in the mid fight image cons got a model sniped both times
actually they have comparable vet to cons with less RA and more accuracy |
And it's t3. And it costs 100mp and 25 fu just to unlock it. Check patch notes lately?
Oh and both side techs
im talking about current patch |
I thought you compared all upgraded variants? Would be fair as this would compare units at their true potential. They're also not that bad that they would completely hamper your early game, far from Conscript level. OKW can deal with a slower early game since Sturmpioniere can compensate that. Panzerfusiliere are meant to be upgraded, so I think calculating with the complete costs seems fine. Otherwise you could also say that Obersoldaten are total shit for their price and reinforcement costs. They're also meant to be upgraded, nobody buys them for their vanilla firepower.
I forgot to type the word "more", so the Füsilier upgrade costs 45 mun more than the Grenadier G43 upgrade. So compared to them you pay 40 MP and 45 mun more for a higher health pool, a bit utility, better survivability and DPS retention. I see why you might think that there should be adjustments because especially the upgrade is very expensive. But all in all, I think Panzerfusiliere are a good trade off. Less early game firepower for very good late game scaling and early safety against vehicles and a utility. To me they seemed fine both as OKW and as Allies, I even had the feeling that they were able to trade with 5 man Tommies, but that's just personal experience, no data on that.
Also I don't know about their vet boni by heart compared to other mainline infantry.
no i was comparing base pfusi and base rifle and volks
u sure ? Cause they barely win at long range and lose at mid and close range to cons at base and at long range with the upgrade they can still trade
https://imgur.com/a/tO7E0oW
truly worth their 280 mp price "hhuhhu rifle are up they draw at long range vs a unit that cost 30 less mp" "it's perfectly fine for cons to beat pfusi at mid and close rnage evn tho they cost 40 more mp"
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