+1000
Ostwind is unit that really needs some love from the mod team. I see only 2 options:
- Performance stays at the current level- than the fuel price needs to go down significantly (70fuel would be ok). The difference to the P4 (50 fuel) and the earlier arrival could make the unit more attractive.
- Unit get a real role and redesign. But its not as easy as it seems, P4 occupies the spot of the generalist in T3 and the Brummbaer is the dedicated anti-blob killer.
I can only speak for myself but i would like to see the Ostwind be a better armoured version of OKW's Flakht with decent suppression and with no need to re-aim after moving.
An other idea: Ostwind is moved to T2 but you would need to sidetech to build it(Like the AEC). Then it could fill in the role of stop gap unit until you get your Brumm / Panther.
One of the problem is that you don't need Ostwind as it's performance is low and mainly the main trouble isn't infantry, but the fast light vehicle play of Allies. Ostwind doesn't help you at all against the light vehicle play which in a weird way is the main reason every single OST player avoids building it. |
This is essentially the problem. It comes at a premium fuel prices and doesn't offer anything for that premium. In 9 out of 10 cases, the Pz IV is far more solid choice.
Ostwind needs a place, fit into a strategy and right now the only place it has would be a hard counter of light vehicle rush strategies, but for this it needs far higher DPS (=higher RoF, basically) against lights to be effectice in such a role.
It needs a ability to increase penetration or similar ability like Sherman have ability swap what ammo it uses HE for AI & AP for light vehicle & Medium tanks. |
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As long nothing is done to Ostwind it will never be in my choice of building it. Reducing it's fuel cost could be another small change that might tempt someone to go for it. My opinion is that it cost too much for what it does, cannot handle even T70 (which cost less), doesn't for price of 100 fuel do that much AI damage what it's supposed to do.
At this point in time there is no point in building Ostwind when you can wait 20 fuel more and get PzIV rather. |
The 222 is cancer against brits and wipes retreating squads way too easily.
In what world...yes it has a chance to wipe very low health 1 model squad in retreat, but no way it's doing it with the ease of other units in the game doing that much better. 222 is maybe the worst LV unit to try killing retreating squads. |
The real actual issue with penals though, is not their combat performance. As someone has corrected stated, you can basically have 3 grens vs 2 penals (720 vs 600), in tier 1 and it balances out somewhat.
the problem i have, is with their utility.
The two elements that are too strong, are the extremely easy upgrade to AT vs light vehicles with their rifles, and the bigger issue - The satchel charge is far too strong.
The satchel one shots any squad squarely hit by it. and any building, or any squad inside a building, including caches. This effectively means penals, by their existence alone, DENY you the ability to cache/tech up fast enough to face the inevitable t70 with your own vehicles. You can try to hide and defend the caches sure, but this means you must never...ever...fall back...and that you concede the rest of the map. if you have to fallback, which any competant or evenly matched player can force eventually, then you WILL lose your cache. he only needs to move 1 squad and spend 30 muni to cause the same economic damage as a full squad wipe.
The presence of penals too, also shuts down the ability to be aggressive with light vehicles. people say "oh, but i cant use my satchel against a well microed light vehicle." and youre right. except....the mere threat of the satchel charge 1 shotting my halftrack or heavily damaging any vehicle with GUARANTEED engine damage, zones you out of certain locations dependant on terrain. This is also not ok. Imagine if panzerfausts, which are exclusively AT and dont have the huge aoe or versatility that a satchel does, had GUARANTEED engine damage and the same damage as a penals satchel. whats the justification? the range on the satchels isnt that different to a faust, and the muni difference is 5? Grens also dont get AT rifles to boot?
The thing that really pushed me over the edge with regards to the satchels, was when i got cheesed by a guy who, in tier 1, made 1 penal squad and a transport truck. drove to my base, and kept satchel charging the BASE BUNKERS. these base bunkers get one shot for the bargain price of 30 munitions. If i dont rebuild the bunkers, youre in for a base rape when you fallback, as he can commit to a combined arms push of your base. if i DO rebuild the bunkers, im spending 150/60, AND wasting my pioneer/grenadiers time to counter a 30 muni expense?
Penal battallions are just too versatile.
Same issue, I am actually ok with everything about the penals, BUT the satchel in the game. It should be removed and give them normal grenade and with ptrs upgrade the conscript at-grenade. This would tone their utility to more normal. |
Thread: Stug1 Dec 2018, 06:27 AM
Yea that's a bit much. To be fair panthers were the real problematic high armour unit since you could get multiple and they are fast. with its armour fallen I'd like to see cuts across the board
Only way to get multiple panther is only in 3v3 - 4v4 games. There is no chance in 1v1 or 2v2 games to get multiple panthers.
If you go as axis double panther you have to be 100% certain you are winning always the infantry engagements as Panther does not help you at all in AI firepower. |
Thread: Stug1 Dec 2018, 05:21 AM
Do people actually use hulldown on a turretless tank?
I haven't seen hulldown in years, and literally never seen someone use it with a stug.
Hulldown is useless with the ease of allies infantry to get superior anti-tank weapons. Soviets ptrs to penal AT satchel from su85 60 range sniping. USF can just get bazookas to rear echelons to easily to destroy hulldown tanks and 57mm AT-guns with veterancy has the best range & rof of the game with good penetration. |
Thread: Stug1 Dec 2018, 05:17 AM
IMO tank destroyers should get high accuracy, good pen but mediocre ROF so they can reliably keep heavy tanks and heavy TDs away while not being very good against mediums.
This is where the problem is, Firefly kills Panther which cost more easily. And teching for it is much harder than it is for British player. I would reduce the accuracy of 60 range TD's from max range by 50%. So to reliably hit a tank they would need to close to that 40-50 range where every tank can hit.
This doesn't mean they would close to that distance, but it wouldn't make them so damn easy to use with their superior range and every hit dealing so much damage which for axis is so much harder to repair compared to allies. |
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I think a lot of games for soviets boil down how your early game goes against both OKW or OST. You should try both the usual tactics of going conscript&maxim build or penals, clown car + sniper. Map + which faction is against you should usually decide which early plan you go with.
Most used is the penals as they are strong, but conscript + maxim doesn't bleed you in manpower that badly if things go wrong compared to Penals. |
But StuG3 is a TD.
You already have AI specialist and generalist in the tier and that would step on both of these roles, creating a superior vehicle.
I was talking about the short barrel call in StugIIIe. The penetration from AP should be low, but good enough to shoot at Daimler/other light tanks/light vehicles. |
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