Feedback for Commander Revamppatch

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If you're really going to sit here and defend the Brumbar with Dozer comparisons then I don't know what to say...

Play the game Vipper, you'll see one of these units built and even rushed almost every game while the dozer is a unicorn in comparison.

Dozer comes with non doctrinal smoke round

Panzer tactician is the best tank smoke in the game, players such as Hans or Luvnest have all said this repeatidly. It's the ultimate get out of jail card, smoke rounds take time to fire and are not instant.

A Brumbar with a CP4 has the same EHP as a Dozer vet 2.

Yes well why don't you give us the vet armour of both units and actual stuff like TTK vs handheld AT or medium tanks? HP means nothing if you are not noting the armour and pen of average tank shooting at them. You posted pen chances in the other thread but you conveniently gloss over them when replying to me, so good job basically proving me right.

Do you know how radio net works? The unit does not have to be vet3. Do you know what is the reload speed a Dozer can have at vet 1 compared that of Brumbar vet1?
Are you talking about dozer in live or in patch?

But it needs vet 3 and another tank for the silly vacuum perfect unicorn stats you are pushing to say Brumbar is balanced in terms of dozer. Brumbar just needs command P4 and smoke and it's OP on call in, more so at vet 2.

Can we skip the personal remarks? I would hate to have to respond on personal level in feedback thread.

Pointing out the lack of substance to your argument is not a personal remark. Really you argued the point rotation speed>armour in a battering ram unit, not me.

I'm afraid of Pak43 spam all the way from Berlin to Moscow if Pak43 can be savaged.
Pak43 is already cheap (cheaper than a stug). And with strompoineer spam or a 50% build speed booster it can be build very fast. And Pak43 can shoot through blocks making it horrible in urban fight.
Maybe increase its cost a little bit or change its passive shoot-through-blocks ability to a active one.

can we change infantry company m5 halftrack for something more useful like combat engineers or a flamethrower?

can we change infantry company m5 halftrack for something more useful like combat engineers or a flamethrower?

Infantry Company doesn't have the M5 Halftrack, Tactical Support does.

So you either mean replacing the M21 Mortar Halftrack in Infantry Company, or the M5 in the Tac Sup Company.

And even so both commanders are not included in this patch so yeah...

Infantry Company doesn't have the M5 Halftrack, Tactical Support does.

So you either mean replacing the M21 Mortar Halftrack in Infantry Company, or the M5 in the Tac Sup Company.

And even so both commanders are not included in this patch so yeah...

Yeah, I ment the tactical support one, I dont like the mortar halftrack too much but its def more useful than the m5

Wermacht 1.8

Infantry Doctrine

250 Half-track (CP 0)
The unit might be ok as call-in but in this commander it simply arrives to early. A mobile mg/command bunker can put too much pressure on important sector.

In addition the unit suit a mechanized commander much more than an infantry commander.

Suggestion:
Replace the unit with Stug which fit the commander's theme allot more.

Veteran Squad Leaders (CP 2)
Pioneer can upgrade to 5 men for 30Mu
5 men with flamer do not mix well even at CP 2.

Suggestion:
Remove Mu cost from upgrade but make it mutually exclusive with flamers.
Or
Alternatively keep the Mu cos but now med kits are free.

Grenadier can upgrade to 5 men+1 g43 for 60Mu
0.9 CD 0.9 RA, medic kit no cost
The upgrade creates another long range infantry making either lmg gren better or 5 men grenadier better thus leaving little room for both units.

Suggestion:
Increase Cd on medic kit, it can be used too often for a "free" ability.
and
Give different abilities like a stun grenade and/or smoke grenade creating more difference between the 2 versions.
and/or
Go even further, merge the ability with "Jaeger Light Infantry upgrade" providing 5 g43 with about garrand level creating the room for both version to cooperate as an offensive and defensive infantry. (ability could even get a tech cost adding strategic thinking on when to unlock)

Panzer grenadiers can upgrade Support Package for 30Mu
passive:
-Rudimentary Repair: Allows Panzergrenadiers to repair at a reduced rate. (1.1 vs a Pioneer's 1.6)
-Combined Arms: Panzergrenadiers gain -10% Received Accuracy and +20% speed when near vehicles.
Active 25 munition
-Mark Target/ Infantry: Panzergrenadiers can mark hostile infantry; enemy will take +30% received accuracy while the Panzergrenadiers receive +15% received
An interesting upgrade.

Suggestions:
Since vehicles will probably be target of ballistic weapons and having infantry close to tanks is generally not a good idea maybe replace RA accuracy with 10% ballistic damage resistance?
and
Active will probably not used since pg and vehicle will probably have enough firepower to deal with enemy infantry. Maybe replace with faster reinforcement speed. PG reinforce extremely slowly or some other buff when the vehicle uses it own ability further increasing synergy.

StormTroopers (CP 2)
cost 340 8Pop
The unit simply does not fit the commander's theme. It should actually be available only in encirclement and designed only for that commander.
No cost MP-40 have little reason to exist, it compares pale to JLI at CP 1 and 250 cost , and to AT partisans that come with a shreck ready can have snare and mines.
The shreck upgrade is bad combined with the mp40 since the unit has little AI, little AT and no snare.
Booby traps should be available to be used by unit that operate behind enemy lines

Suggestions:
All infiltration units can now be built at HQ a normal cost at CP 0 (without weapons) or be deploy from ambient building at their CP paying a premium.
and
lower the cost of the unit and add a cost to MP40 upgrade
and/or
either remove Shreck or make mutally explosive but give a snare to unit (satchel charge type?) and allow it to plant shue mines.
Remove requirement of connection for use of all booby traps, including soviet ones.
Alternatively
Replace ST with assault grenadiers that are moved to CP1 or CP2 and buffed accordingly so that they relevant in late game.
and/or
If you want Commando clones for Wer:
remove g43 upgrade from PG from "Jaeger Light Infantry upgrade" and replace with 5 MP44+1 entity, replace camo for PGs with Commando and the commando clones are ready in " Jaeger Infantry Doctrine"
or
Replace with infantry officer a new officer designed for Infantry doctrine.

Assault and Hold (CP 6)
cost 70 duration 45 sec
x1.25 accuracy x2 decap cap rate
An interesting ability

Fragmentation Bombing (CP 10)
cost 180 Mu
A decent ability

Removed abilities
Tactical Movement
Light Artillery
Artillery officer

Suggestion:
Replace the unit with Stug which fit the commander's theme allot more.

I think this would be a good opportunity to introduce the Panzer IV F1 to the multiplayer game as a short barrel infantry support tank.

The StuG is shared by 2 other commanders now anyhow, I don't think we need a 3rd one.

I think this would be a good opportunity to introduce the Panzer IV F1 to the multiplayer game as a short barrel infantry support tank.

What would a Panzer IV F1 really bring to the table when there is already the F2 (or H) that's decent at AI while being good at AT? And there is already the Ostwind as a cheaper AI tank (though it kinda sucks). Give the gun 50-60 range and it's just a Stug E with a turret.
It would serve no distinct role in OST.


If the F1 is ever introduced it should be for OKW, who lack a dedicated AI vehicle. It could serve as a mini Dozer/Brummbär for them.

Wermacht 1.8

Defensive Doctrine

Osttrupen(CP 0)
cost 200
Unit fits commander theme, still does not scale good. In addition mechanics are too complicated and lmg on 6 men squad is imo a bad approach.

Suggestions:
Increase cooldown of ability, possibly reinforcement speed slightly.
and
Apply a penalty at all weapons of the squad adjust damage of default weapons and the cover bonus. (this mechanism can be applies to all squad, weapons are balanced around mainline infantry, weapons picked by support units have penalty weapons used by elite infantry have a bonus).
and
Remove the LMG upgrade, once BP3 is researched unit can upgrade to replaced by Ostlegionen or Ost-Bataillone a unit that no longer uses the cover mechanism has a target size 1 and can merge. Possibly use Soviet weapons.

Entrenching tools (CP 1)
Tank trap are being built too fast while provide green cover and are not used according to their real life use, trenches see little action, sand bag can easily be built.

Suggestions:
Tank traps (all factions) reduce building speed by allot, reduce cover from green to yellow, reduce size to 10 but allow engineer to dismantle "cut" them.
and
Trenches (all factions) allow only engineer to built them, increase protection from all type of weapon accept incendiary WP. That would make them hard to make more useful.
and
Give them 50-75 cost cost and password protection, but allow them to be "captured" when unoccupied. Allow them to be dismantle by engineer for half mp refund. Make the decision to used more strategic.
and
sandbags remove them from all mainline infantry (accept conscripts?) or increase time to built. Not all fight have to take place in green cover, make maps cover more important.

Stug III Ausf E assualt gun (CP 7)
cost 260/75
An assult gun does not really fit a defensive commander, hull-down is a far better choice (can be replaced in other commander with similar mechanism).
The unit's base stat has been buffed considerably.

Suggestion:
Move some of the bonus as veterancy bonuses. Move mobility bonus to vet 2 replacing armor. Add smaller size in vet 3.
and
Give the unit an mg.
and
Replace the TWP ability with direct fire shot with hollow shell for AP use. In real life Stug -E where used against vehicles successfully. In addition the unit should not be completely defenseless vs light vehicles.

Hulldown
Rename to defensive position and redesign the ability to give custom bonuses to units. turret-less units could exchange movement for faster rotation.

Advanced Defensive Positions
Pak 43 Emplacement
cost 350/45FU gun can be scuttled and 120/15 fuel refunded.
The idea might be good but being able to creep you Pzk43 for 230/30 fuel is exploitable. Even you manage to kill a single tank you are probably causing more bleed.

Suggestions:
offer upgrade to the emplacement so it becomes more resistant to artillery weapons?

Concrete bunker (CP 2)
Cost 300 can be upgrade to repair station with 60MU (960 HP/35 armor)
Interesting have not tested enough

Mg Concrete bunker (CP 2)
Cost 380 2 Pop
interesting have not tested enough

Pak 43 Emplacement (CP 8)
cost 350/45FU


Sector Artillery (CP 12)
cost 200MU duration 30 secs.
The ability comes too late for a defensive ability is very expensive and extremely powerful if the opponent does not retreat. It performance is inconstant from forcing a retreat to wiping enemies army and is also inconstant across game modes. By comparison close the pocket compared pale.

Suggestions:
Reduce CP-7-8, reduce cost to 100-120 and balance around the power of light artillery barrage affecting the sector instead of specific area while increasing duration. This will help the ability serve the role as a soft deterrent instead of gaming changing hit or miss ability.


Removed abilities
pak 43
Tank traps
Hull down

What would a Panzer IV F1 really bring to the table when there is already the F2 (or H) that's decent at AI while being good at AT? And there is already the Ostwind as a cheaper AI tank (though it kinda sucks). Give the gun 50-60 range and it's just a Stug E with a turret.
It would serve no distinct role in OST.


If the F1 is ever introduced it should be for OKW, who lack a dedicated AI vehicle. It could serve as a mini Dozer/Brummbär for them.

I imagine it would be something between an Ostwind and a regular PZIV, not being tied to tech and cheaper I suppose would also be some good points about it. So a turreted StuG III E is not really what I mean by it.

I imagine it would be something between an Ostwind and a regular PZIV, not being tied to tech and cheaper I suppose would also be some good points about it. So a turreted StuG III E is not really what I mean by it.

My suggestion included removing Stug-e from defense commander since it is an assault gun...

Just wanted to post one more reminder to give Tank Hunter Sections their upgrades back now that Sappers have snares.

My suggestion included removing Stug-e from defense commander since it is an assault gun...

Yeah I read that, I think that the Command PZIV is a better fit but that's just me I suppose, I don't see them bringing back and redesigning hull down any time soon, and especially now since they said there won't be anymore major changes but I don't see why not since there's still a lot of time until the release date for the patch.

Yeah I read that, I think that the Command PZIV is a better fit but that's just me I suppose, I don't see them bringing back and redesigning hull down any time soon, and especially now since they said there won't be anymore major changes but I don't see why not since there's still a lot of time until the release date for the patch.

They wanted some internal time for testing. We have to keep in mind that the mod team released the US tech mod too. I guess they wanted to finish the revamp commanders and concentrate on the US mod. New Commanders have to come too in the not so distant future, so the guys have a lot to do

What i would like to see is some form of information about the approach to these new commanders. On the relic side we can read that the community can send in "commander concepts" and the mod team decides about them.
But we - i include you (half of the new concept ideas comes from you- could better plan if we would know more about the parameters of these new commanders. Are cross- over units / abilities allowed and if yes how many? That would be a very helpful information!

Maybe you could give us some infos, guys? I would appreciate it a lot!

So can you use that mark target ability from the 250 half-track runnin pgrens. As that will make it a super squad wiper unit =)

Wermacht 1.8

Stug III Ausf E assualt gun (CP 7)
cost 260/75
An assult gun does not really fit a defensive commander, hull-down is a far better choice (can be replaced in other commander with similar mechanism).
The unit's base stat has been buffed considerably.

Suggestion:
Move some of the bonus as veterancy bonuses. Move mobility bonus to vet 2 replacing armor. Add smaller size in vet 3.
and
Give the unit an mg.
and
Replace the TWP ability with direct fire shot with hollow shell for AP use. In real life Stug -E where used against vehicles successfully. In addition the unit should not be completely defenseless vs light vehicles.

I would rather have the option for HEAT ammo which they used as anti-tank shots. Another is stugIII should have the option of swapping with HE or AP ammo to make it more versatile unit like USF M4

I would rather have the option for HEAT ammo which they used as anti-tank shots. Another is stugIII should have the option of swapping with HE or AP ammo to make it more versatile unit like USF M4

But StuG3 is a TD.
You already have AI specialist and generalist in the tier and that would step on both of these roles, creating a superior vehicle.

Play the game Vipper, you'll see one of these units built and even rushed almost every game while the dozer is a unicorn in

The dozer and the brumbar could be literal clones and you would still not see the former as much.

Do you know why? It's a thing called the m8 Scott.

I have a question about new commanders when u guys wanna release them and will there be an option to test them

Brummbär:

Change it with StuG E, Brummbär gets a doctrinal unit. StuG E becomes a T3 unit.

Si mechanized commander and new def-commander get the Brummbär.

Ostwind into T4 and buff it.