OKW September patch discussion

Now that is a stupid argument to justify raketen being bad. Using your logic then T0 USF mortars should be nerfed to uselessness and T0 conscripts should suck as they did before the recent buffs...

I mean, the USF t0 mortar is probably the worst in the game stat-wise, and conscripts are obviously the worst mainline infantry in the game (and still are)

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Raketenwerfer 43
The unit needs an (as many other units) an veterancy overhaul.

Most bonuses have to with camo and are completely useless when in garrison. In addition first strike bonuses come too late (especially compared to Soviet "camo" ATG with vet 0 bonuses).

Finally there is little reason for different camo mechanism across factions.

Other notes:
Unit reaction times are slow
Projectile seems to less chance of collision hits

Suggestion one could try making the unit work like other rockets and have less penetration but add deflection damage. One could even lower damage but increase accuracy making the more consistent. It could then be locked behind T1 same as the HMG with the faust available from first truck build or from start.

Do not derail any of these threads about the balance patch or you will be invised. Keep it on the patchnotes discussion and about OKW in this thread.

Why don't you do this for the Schwerer Panzer HQ:

Have the Panzer 4 buildable from the standard HQ halftrack but not unlocked until T3. Then put the King Tiger in the SPHQ so it's buildable and not a call in. Then if you lose the SPHQ building you lose the ability to build Panthers and King Tigers but still maintain the ability to call in medium armor.

Why don't you do this for the Schwerer Panzer HQ:

Have the Panzer 4 buildable from the standard HQ halftrack but not unlocked until T3. Then put the King Tiger in the SPHQ so it's buildable and not a call in. Then if you lose the SPHQ building you lose the ability to build Panthers and King Tigers but still maintain the ability to call in medium armor.

Because if you loose t4, now you have a small chance of coming back with a KT, a p4 will just get rekt.

Not sure, as the build animation ends with the models crewing the gun. But we will look into ways of making it obvious that the Panzer Authorization (and the flak gun activation) hasn't been upgraded yet.

That would definitely be possible, and is a very good idea.

IRHT still needs a rework/nerf. It's a stupid unit that promotes arty spam and is maphax as much as the old valentine (which costs 1600% of the fuel of the IRHT).

I mean, the USF t0 mortar is probably the worst in the game stat-wise, and conscripts are obviously the worst mainline infantry in the game (and still are)

Isn't the usf mortar a wehr clone with slightly lower range and a scatter buff as a vet 1?

Isn't the usf mortar a wehr clone with slightly lower range and a scatter buff as a vet 1?

No the range matches the OST mortar now but it still seems like it isn't as accurate but it might be.

Isn't the usf mortar a wehr clone with slightly lower range and a scatter buff as a vet 1?

No the range matches the OST mortar now but it still seems like it isn't as accurate but it might be.

No. It is the ostheer mortar with

Worse teardown (2.1 or 2.2 seconds to 2 seconds iirc)
Worse scatter
And worse range.

And I dont recall any special vet for it over the ostheer one besides smoke ability recharge, but Im on phone right now and can't be arsed to check.

Also, people will remember what the mortar used to be and tell you it has quicker teardown still. It does not. I checked this the last time it came up. Presently the USF mortar's only positive attribute is it is tier 0 and has a shorter minimum smoke barrage range.

seriously, why don't we start fixing OKW from the start? Sturms need some serious overhaul, an insane highly dps unit as a starter that make the faction depends SO DAMN MUCH on it's success.

seriously, 90% of okw games are defined on the first engagement, if the sturm can force 1-2 squads to retreat and give tons of health damage then you will have a good early game, if you mess up and get damaged/lose models/wipe then you are completely screwed.

what I propose is to make sturms somewhat weaker at first but pick up later with vet, the way they changed now giving stun nades at vet1 but not nerfing anything will be a even bigger nightmare of games being decided on the very first engagement.

OKW patch forgot something.


Adjust the "AT package" for Sturmpio to 60 ammo instead.

There is clearly no reason why it should even be 70 ammo for just 1 Panzerschreck.

It's significantly better than 1 bazooka or PIAT in every aspect except reload, so it's priced accordingly. IMO it's a bad upgrade though, I'd never take it over minesweepers, especially because I usually don't build more than one sturm.

Just food for thought, what if they got a couple AT rifles as an upgrade instead, since the single schreck is (IMO) really supposed to be a soft vehicle counter anyway. They'd sacrifice some later game utility for longer effective range and more consistency, but they'd have more of a defined soft light vehicle counter role (since they'd lose 2 stgs).

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Raketenwerfer 43
The unit needs an (as many other units) an veterancy overhaul.

Most bonuses have to with camo and are completely useless when in garrison. In addition first strike bonuses come too late (especially compared to Soviet "camo" ATG with vet 0 bonuses).

Finally there is little reason for different camo mechanism across factions.

Other notes:
Unit reaction times are slow
Projectile seems to less chance of collision hits

Suggestion one could try making the unit work like other rockets and have less penetration but add deflection damage. One could even lower damage but increase accuracy making the more consistent. It could then be locked behind T1 same as the HMG with the faust available from first truck build or from start.

Yeah I agree that it could use a vet overhaul.

I don't find pen to be a problem with it, considering the targets it's usually up against. I also kind of think fausts and flamenades access should be switched given that the lack of snares is kind of abusable but flamenades aren't (IMO) super necessary before the first truck sets up anyway. I get that mgs in buildings are hard to deal with, but I'd usually rather outflank them and dislodge them normally and save the muni for stgs anyway, especially when you have sturms plus like 4 volks or whatever.

I like most of the changes that this patch brings, these are my suggestions.

Sturm offizier
Its an actually useful unit now, but I would change 2 things:
Swap vet 3 and vet 5 veterancy otherwise we never get to see the STG and because rule of cool.
Give it the offensive support ability from the commissar to highlight its aggressive nature.

Panzerheadquarters
I like the current tech setup because it brings with it more of a risk reward and it allows for more strategies with some units coming earlier.
However I would like to see the Jagdpanzer and the Flakpanzer to be moved before the authorization just like the Obers and Hetzer. Otherwise the Flakpanzer would come out to late to be of use and with the Jagdpanzer it gives you a tool to atleast stem the tide of possible allied medium spam.

It's significantly better than 1 bazooka or PIAT in every aspect except reload, so it's priced accordingly. IMO it's a bad upgrade though, I'd never take it over minesweepers, especially because I usually don't build more than one sturm.

Just food for thought, what if they got a couple AT rifles as an upgrade instead, since the single schreck is (IMO) really supposed to be a soft vehicle counter anyway. They'd sacrifice some later game utility for longer effective range and more consistency, but they'd have more of a defined soft light vehicle counter role (since they'd lose 2 stgs).

It definitely does not deserve to be anywhere near 70 ammo just for 1 Pzschreck.

If take SU AT package which is 60, it provides 2 PTRS being not equivalent to the 1 Pzschreck but being nearly twice as efficient.

Why? Because in 7-8 seconds PTRS does around 240-280 damage while Panzershreck does 120 damage. Only a second after would deal 240 damage for Panzerschreck but the PTRS would deal even around 300 damage.

I do not see the point at all in keeping it 70 ammo when its clearly not the best. Sure better than bazooka, but not that much better than the PTRS package.

Does not justify at all. It should simply be 60 ammo.

Show Spoiler

Raketenwerfer 43
The unit needs an (as many other units) an veterancy overhaul.

Most bonuses have to with camo and are completely useless when in garrison. In addition first strike bonuses come too late (especially compared to Soviet "camo" ATG with vet 0 bonuses).

Finally there is little reason for different camo mechanism across factions.

Other notes:
Unit reaction times are slow
Projectile seems to less chance of collision hits

Suggestion one could try making the unit work like other rockets and have less penetration but add deflection damage. One could even lower damage but increase accuracy making the more consistent. It could then be locked behind T1 same as the HMG with the faust available from first truck build or from start.

Write on this recent thread concerning Raks.

It would be easier for all to see.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/95391/raketenwerfer-stay-or-change-what-say-you

It definitely does not deserve to be anywhere near 70 ammo just for 1 Pzschreck.

If take SU AT package which is 60, it provides 2 PTRS being not equivalent to the 1 Pzschreck but being nearly twice as efficient.

Why? Because in 7-8 seconds PTRS does around 240-280 damage while Panzershreck does 120 damage. Only a second after would deal 240 damage for Panzerschreck but the PTRS would deal even around 300 damage.

I do not see the point at all in keeping it 70 ammo when its clearly not the best. Sure better than bazooka, but not that much better than the PTRS package.

Does not justify at all. It should simply be 60 ammo.

In 7-8 seconds a ptrs will have fired twice and be in the process of cooling down for another second or two. So 160 damage IF all 4 shots landed and penetrated.


Penetration is far superior on the panzershrek and front loading your damage into a single shot is actually much better when it comes to managing engagements because your infantry dont have to stand there continually firing. You fire once and then move the closer during your reload time, or to cover w.e. You can be far more efficient that way. In addition the ptrs take up 2 slots while the shrek only takes up 1. I honestly dont see how you could think its comparable.


What I will say is I do think the shrek upgrade could provide some additional utility such as reduced cost on all abilities in order to make it more appealing to compete with minesweeper.

In 7-8 seconds a ptrs will have fired twice and be in the process of cooling down for another second or two. So 160 damage IF all 4 shots landed and penetrated.


Penetration is far superior on the panzershrek and front loading your damage into a single shot is actually much better when it comes to managing engagements because your infantry dont have to stand there continually firing. You fire once and then move the closer during your reload time, or to cover w.e. You can be far more efficient that way. In addition the ptrs take up 2 slots while the shrek only takes up 1. I honestly dont see how you could think its comparable.


What I will say is I do think the shrek upgrade could provide some additional utility such as reduced cost on all abilities in order to make it more appealing to compete with minesweeper.

Besides the PTRS it comes along with an AT Satchel which is pretty much superior AT package than what Sturmpio AT package can even provide.

So, there is no reason why Sturmpio package should even cost 70 ammo when it clearly is lacking the potency.

Honestly, do you not see the difference it provides between the two packages

Penals get 2 PTRS and a Satchel snare for 60 ammo
Sturmpio only gets 1 Panzerschreck for 70 ammo


Sturmpio AT package should clearly not be any higher than the price of the Penals AT package.

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Although Panzerschreck has better penetration, it does not play as much a crucial role than the PTRS package does and here is why.

PTRS package has definitely superior DPS in comparison meaning hits on vehicles is much more frequent and its something that none wants to get close to. It drains vehicles health.

Even getting a vehicle close up to Penals, most of the the lights (with or without satchels) wont even survive since the follow ups gurantees the kills and possibly even against a medium tank (with satchel its only possible).

Sturmpio cant even do that at all. Cant follow up quickly enough since its terribly slow and cant even snare it at all.

That is on huge difference which clearly undermines its exaggerated performance about Sturmpios Panzerschreck. It clearly is not that good in contrast.

The clear difference between the 2 packages. Penals AT 60 ammo, is purely far superior. There no denying that.

PTRS is so useful at countering not only lights (which plays a crucial role) but also Medium tanks. It does perfectly in those while.

Stumrpio 1 Panzerschreck is not that good in any sector, not even dealing with lights, mediums or even heavies properly with its lacking output and uitility. It does even have the ability to scare the enemy off which PTRS clearly does have that impact. Not at all with only 1 Panzerschreck, easily avoidable.

Thus, I conclude that it clearly does not deserve a price of 70 ammo, rather a price of 60 ammo.

Devs need to re-evaluate this properly.

The power of the Shrek is that in an instant it will deliver 120 damage without chance of bouncing any core non hammer/anvil allied vehicles. It's a snap shot damn near guaranteed damage. Again, making it too affordable will allow the newly buffed Sturm to be less of a risk for the reward if you lead with multiple. Very bad direction

From what I read, I predict the Reaktenwerfer to be even more of a pain to use, but less of a pain to deal with. While being able to reverse-move is nice, its kind of useless without having survival chances of a gunshield. even if there is an extra model is there. only one of the gunners need to be killed to be stuck in place WITHOUT cover. Even with 5 range more, im not sure if that will make it less of a glasscanon, the stealth is more or less all of its ability to survive.