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OKW September patch discussion

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15 Aug 2019, 12:04 PM
#81
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

He said they have worse scaling, that’s undeniably true look at vet and upgrades

They also have long range, AI specialist mid game elite infantry that can arrive earlier now and have multiple doctrinal infantries if you feel they fall short, plus they have very decent HMG to back them up mid to late game.

They may have worse scaling, but they're still excellent unit - was it any different, they wouldn't be getting price changes now.
15 Aug 2019, 12:10 PM
#82
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

Schwere Panzer Autorization having to be rebought when it goes down, is quite frankly a mistake. One of the main reasons people went for Command Panther instead of rebuilding a schwere, was because of the cost involved and then having to purchase and build a tank again.

This of course can't be done anymore, so you guys took away the symptom, whilst adding to the cause. You now HAVE to rebuild your schwere, which is fine if you ask me, but also have to do another upgrade AGAIN which consumes more time and again the full resources like before. You are basically getting mandhandled and slapped across the face and buttcheek with this one. Why even place your schwere aggressively anymore? Might as well plant it in base now, even cuttof is too dangerous now.

I mean, what is the reasoning for this lol?
15 Aug 2019, 12:36 PM
#83
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Schwere Panzer Autorization having to be rebought when it goes down, is quite frankly a mistake. One of the main reasons people went for Command Panther instead of rebuilding a schwere, was because of the cost involved and then having to purchase and build a tank again.

This of course can't be done anymore, so you guys took away the symptom, whilst adding to the cause. You now HAVE to rebuild your schwere, which is fine if you ask me, but also have to do another upgrade AGAIN which consumes more time and again the full resources like before. You are basically getting mandhandled and slapped across the face and buttcheek with this one. Why even place your schwere aggressively anymore? Might as well plant it in base now, even cuttof is too dangerous now.

So evaluate actual risk now and don't put it in places where you may lose it?
Crutching on free, powerful forward emplacement and capitalizing on powerful call-in vehicle is no more.
If you don't want to lose ability to build tanks, don't put it in front. There is a reason why trucks were allowed to be built in base and now OKW got to make risk vs reward decisions all other factions do.

I mean, what is the reasoning for this lol?

Simple actually - no more special snowflaking for OKW.
No more free passes for bullshit at the expense of balance anymore.

No faction retains ability to produce units from X tier if that tier structure is destroyed.
And inb4 you try to say "others don't build outside of base sector" 1) artillery is a thing 2) no one is forcing OKW to do so.
15 Aug 2019, 12:36 PM
#84
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 783

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Aug 2019, 11:39 AMgbem


not when you factor in recieved accuracy... grenadiers have far superior RA to conscripts... and so long as they arent used offensively... get far less bleed than conscripts... of course they sacrifice this when on the offensive but grenadiers are intended to be a defensive tool to the more offensive oriented conscript...

likewise in grenadier vs conscript duel the conscript is actually more likely to bleed models than the grenadiers... simply due to the higher RA... even if the conscript does eventually put itself in an advantageous position... say i oorah into medium/close range into cover... the conscript is still more likely to bleed models than the gren by virtue of RA and DPS on the part of the grenadier squad... even if the conscript does put itself on an winning engagement...

the only real point where those numbers start to become irrelevant is the lategame where tanks and artillery overtake small arms fire... in that case grenadiers do start to bleed quite alot... but thats the price paid for the lower earlygame bleed of grens





volks have vet and upgrades aswell... conscripts may get better vet... but lets not forget that soviet conscript builds struggle against volks.... to the point that almost no tournament player even opts to use them against volks...

why you ask?

because theyre simply not competitive

ohh mind you the volk STG actually improves DPS at all ranges... its a no brainer upgrade without any compromise whatsoever...



LMG42 grens have to be static in order to deal damage... this leaves you open to alot of different strategies in order to deal with this... its the sole reason why G43 grens are popular in high level games bc the G43 fires on the move allowing continuous DPS despite the strategy in use...

for example if i see an LMG grenblob i immediately find an SU-76 a katy a churchill a KV-8 or any other AOE damage tool to punish the static grens or force them to keep moving in order to nullify their DPS... volks will have increased DPS in all situations...



conscripts and grens disagree... in fact conscripts and grens are soo bad compared to the current volks that claiming "260mp/26 reinforce makes them bad" is a biased sentiment



I already mentioned that with vet conscripts have RA that is only 1% worse than grenadiers yet have 50% lower reinforcement cost and 50% more models.

Conscripts struggle against volks because volks receive a power spike before cons can get durability from vet. However if both players had full vet and upgrades on cons and volks, conscripts would without question be more cost efficient-and not insubstantially. That is my point, conscripts perform better as the game progresses while volks become worse and worse relative to their counterparts as time goes on.
Grenadiers also have superior veterancy to volks though grens are really expensive to reinforce and that diminishes their cost effectiveness. Still they too scale better than volks as the game progresses.

If you honestly believe conscripts and grens are so much worse than volks then I have to question at what level you are playing or if you are playing at all.
15 Aug 2019, 12:50 PM
#85
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

OKW patch forgot something.


Adjust the "AT package" for Sturmpio to 60 ammo instead.

There is clearly no reason why it should even be 70 ammo for just 1 Panzerschreck.
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