OKW September patch discussion

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the ober tech change is point less they would basically be penal that comes a bit before tank comes out as they lack lmg and u ONLY GET THEM IN THAT TIER

volks changes still don't address the STG problem, changing to mp 40s and adjusting volks vet would be better

sturm still over burned with roles

Raketenwerfer 43 will still hit the worlds objects and lacks shield, use a normal at gun model, or better just copy paste the usf at-gun stats and make the camo have first srtike bonus at vet 1 (200% pen and acc for firsts hoot)

sturm officer rework doesn't have a points, at least make it like the soviet or osther one

and 2 problematic unit like IR hlaftruck and stuka got away untouched, gibe the IR half truck a timer for its ability and stuka needs to come later or work in a different way than precise barrage

Out of all changes done to OKW commanders, uncounterable SpecOP flares were never adressed or replaced by recon plane despite Overwatch flares being nerfed? Seriously?

"We feel that the Hetzer is in a good spot™."

Are we playing the same game?

Reketen still has less range and pen then other AT guns, hits its shots into the ground more then other AT guns and now has its retreat removed. If you ask me which is better 5th man or 4 with retreat, it will always be 4 with retreat, its much more useful for its survivability.

If you dont want the rekten to be unique and be like other AT guns give it the range and pen of other AT guns.

Also with its camo in vet 1 it will be very difficult to ambush clown cars. Honestly overall, the reketen is worse then it used to be.

I would mostly agree with the purposed OKW changes.

My only criticisms/Idea are:

* that t3 only providing un-upgraded obers (and hetzer), it should at least be examined if providing them the ability to upgrade to lmgs and providing ostwind is better.
* That if t3 is destroyed the cost to rebult it is already high, they should consider having the panzer auth upgrade already upgraded (if it was unlocked before).

Reketen still has less range and pen then other AT guns, hits its shots into the ground more then other AT guns and now has its retreat removed. If you ask me which is better 5th man or 4 with retreat, it will always be 4 with retreat, its much more useful for its survivability.

5 men is better because A) retreat can be dumb as the raken will move forward to turn around first, and B) 55 range means it can be futher away from damage and C) reverse is better and more useful than retreat (if you got the micro to do so)

Out of all changes done to OKW commanders, uncounterable SpecOP flares were never adressed or replaced by recon plane despite Overwatch flares being nerfed? Seriously?

Because Special Operations is already taking big hits to two of its major strong points (Command Panther and Infiltration Grenades) and we don't want to nuke the doctrine out of existance.

I would mostly agree with the purposed OKW changes.

My only criticisms/Idea are:

* that t3 only providing un-upgraded obers (and hetzer), it should at least be examined if providing them the ability to upgrade to lmgs and providing ostwind is better.
* That if t3 is destroyed the cost to rebult it is already high, they should consider having the panzer auth upgrade already upgraded (if it was unlocked before).



5 men is better because A) retreat can be dumb as the raken will move forward to turn around first, and B) 55 range means it can be futher away from damage and C) reverse is better and more useful than retreat (if you got the micro to do so)

it cant move whilst in camo

Because Special Operations is already taking big hits to two of its major strong points (Command Panther and Infiltration Grenades) and we don't want to nuke the doctrine out of existance.

5 munitions more for grenades and tech-tied heavies (applies to all faction) are now such a big nerf you positively have to keep broken and OP ability without any sort counterplay in game otherwise nobody would pick commander with with most meta abilities in game in OKW roster? Wew

Also with its camo in vet 1 it will be very difficult to ambush clown cars. Honestly overall, the reketen is worse then it used to be.

Good. It's a 270mp at gun that comes in your hq. Idk why people expect it to perform as well as other AT guns

Something like the 6pdr Rapid Maneuvers for the Raketen now that cloak is stationary and retreat is removed?

Good. It's a 270mp at gun that comes in your hq. Idk why people expect it to perform as well as other AT guns

then adjust its costs accordingly, when okw was made, the reketen was fine was it was as handheld shreks on volks which made up for ther lack off non vehicle AT.

Minor request, is it possible to remove the gunners on the Schwerer Panzer HQ 's flak until the upgrade is done?

then adjust its costs accordingly

It's the location thats the bigger problem. It's the only AT gun that requires no fuel investment to unlock

It's the location thats the bigger problem. It's the only AT gun that requires no fuel investment to unlock

Then simply swap the MG34 and raketen's places in the tech, the MG is already the 2nd weakest after the Maxim so making it T0 like the MG42, the best MG, and the Vickers, arguably one in the middle, would be fine I think.

Minor request, is it possible to remove the gunners on the Schwerer Panzer HQ 's flak until the upgrade is done?

Not sure, as the build animation ends with the models crewing the gun. But we will look into ways of making it obvious that the Panzer Authorization (and the flak gun activation) hasn't been upgraded yet.

Assault Artillary - Still not worth the 200 munitions cost as the circle the shells can fall within is massive. Way too dependent on RNG. I would either like to see the circle reduced in size by 50% or a guaranteed number of shells land dead center so it can be used to reliably destroy static weapons/buildings.

Sturm Officer - Overall the changes are good, but I would like to see some additional utility be added. Smoke nade or regular nade would be nice

Jagtiger - Its cost and or performance need to be addressed now that it's tied to tech. Even as a call in unit is was rarely if ever used. Currently it costs 35 fuel more than an elephant for a little more range and the ability to sink your ammo into a crap mobility upgrade, the ability to fire 2-3 shots through world objects, and an awkward barrage that will maybe tag an infantry model assuming the shells don't collide with terrain as they have little to no arc. Maybe take a look at its vet requirement/bonuses as well.

Opel Blitz - Good changes overall, the reload & ability recharge buffs it gives infantry still feels awkward though.

Command Tiger - Still a lackluster tank. The aura should be passive to be consistent with all other command vehicles. Tone down the bonuses if you have to, but no one will pay munitions to temporarily buff a few squads that have to hug the Tiger while it also gets hit with a debuff to compensate.

Schwerer - Seems like a waste if all you get are vanilla Obers out of it. They're going to have to fight vetted allied infantry and it's not like their LMG/STGs are free either. I also don't feel that the JP4/Ostwind would be too much to add to phase 1.

Sturmpios - Good changes, but I'd like to see shrek not lockout minesweeper.

Raketen - 5 more range and 1 more man won't do much to address the main issue people have with the unit, which is consistency to hit light vehicles and ability to penetrate armored targets. Early game vs an M3 will still be an RNG nightmare, and so will fighting allied heavies late game. Maybe a 1st shot out of camo accuracy/pen bonus?

SturmTiger - Give it back the ability to pierce world objects to fix its horrendous consistency issues and replace its vet 1 ability with either a recon flare or long range smoke canisters.

The OKW changes are probably the most confusing in this patch. Not that they're bad - they just seem to be really strange in some cases.

Starting Res / SWS Trucks / Volks cost
An interesting change. In theory, the first truck could hit the field slightly earlier, but at the cost of (probably) one squad. The volks +10mp cost will result in a delay on the first squad (if you go kubel first) by 30mp, or about 5-10sec, which seems alright, but I think the problem most people were complaining about was the STGs "just buy it" nature. Right now it's just a flat upgrade in every situation. It would be nice to give it some trade-offs, so vet5-STG blobs were a bit less of a thing in mid/late game. Overall I think this change is a step in the right direction, but it's a small step (although, I think incremental changes are a MUCH better approach to things).

SturmPios
This is just a flat buff? Can't say I was expecting this, and I don't really think it was needed either. Sturms are crazy strong early game, due to their incredible close-range DPS, but really squishy in late game. I figured the changes would've made the unit scale better, but start weaker. We'll see how this one players out, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was dropped.

Raketenwerfer
I think this is a nerf, but I'm not entirely sure. The range bonus is nice, as is the crew size, but everything else is just strange. At vet 0, it's just a worse Pak-43. Accuracy is the biggest issue on this unit right now.

Flak-HT
This is my favorite OKW unit, as I prefere Med-HQ over Mech, but I don't think this needed a buff. If med is underutilized, it might be because of the other units being somewhat lackluster (LeiG...). Again, I'll be interested in seeing how this plays out, and the -5 fuel cost probably won't change too much. The vet changes will be interesting, though.

Opel Blitz
A mobile med truck is certainly a welcome addition, but I think this will just make people skip Med-HQ even more.


Everything else seems good, but I was surprised there's no change to Spec-Ops flares, since they're somewhat OP. It would also be nice to see some changes to the SturmTiger's rocket trajectory, but I think someone pointed out this wasn't possible a while ago.

HI guys,

thx for the BIG patch. Because of the size of the OKW changes i will only comment the commander specific changes. I have plenty of time tomorrow to test the other changes and hope to give you more feedback then.

OKW commander specific changes:

Spec ops:

• Who doesnt like the changes to the commando panther
  
• I did expect changes to the flares but also understand and appreciate the desire to not "nuke the doctrine out of existance". Maybe you still find a good replacement for the flares, imo it doesnt need to be a recon ability.
  
  Luftwaffe Ground forces:
  
• Changes to Falls look promising but their biggest weakness - they die way to fast- is not touched. RA of the unit should be buffed but mp price increased to 340 if needed.
  
  Breakthrough:
  
• Happy to see the changes, doctrine will be a lot better than before but here are some suggestions:
  
• Sturmofficer: Vet 1 abiliy is lackluster, mun cost for abilities should be 15-20 mun.
  
• Sector artillery: circle of the shells is still awful,right now the ability is bad against camping brits with their sim city. Just let the ability work like Scavenge's 105mm Howitzer Barrage, smoke shells can have wider circle of fire.
  
  Firestorm:
  Only commander specific changes that i dont like. We are talking about the worst OKW doctrine who only have a mediocre doctrinal tank and NO call-in units at all...
  This commander needs a major addition to be competitive: Soviet defensive tactics got -thankfully- the AT overwatch, Firestorm also need such a good ability.
  
  Some suggestions:
  
• Flammpanzer 38t ‘Hetzer’ should be cheaper (-10 fuel imo)
  
• Opel Blitz: I like the changes in general but the unit costs 20 - i repeat- 20 fuel. The Opel works like the US ambulance, the cost should be adjusted accordingly. Increase mp cost but take away the fuel cost.
  
• LeIG 18 ISG Incendiary Barrage:
  An incendiary barrage is good and useful but why force players to build a specific unit to use the ability? Just replace it with the soviet Incendiary artillery barrage, same cost.
  OKW players would now have 2 arty options:
  
• Strategic arty with Rocket barrage to take out Howitzers / Buildings
  
• More Tactical Incendiary artillery barrage to force retreats of teamweapons etc.
  OR
  
  the ISG incendiary barrage could be simply merged to an "Special munition" ability. Would provide ISG incendiary rounds for the ISG and HEAT shells for the Puma = Both tech paths would provide specific advantages.
  
  
  So, thats it. THX again for your work.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

Raketenwerfer 43

- Retreat function removed.

I would venture a guess that this is a mistake. Will see in testing.