Are kubelwagens OP

You might guess what i'm listening to:

Buy it, use it, play it, fail it, rip it, ditch it, dump it.
Surf it, post it, whine it, heard it, check it, tune it, help it, code it, buff it, patch it, change it, send-upgrade it.
Test it, play it, charge it, point it, push it, shoot it, pin it, kill it, abuse it, profit, call it, praise it...

September Challenge: make Jaigen realize that Truck push + Kubel into Puma/AA HT is OP, specially against USF.

truck push is something entirely different and yes the combination with kubels and puma's is indeed somewhat op one some maps. but the kubel itself is fine.

truck push is something entirely different and yes the combination with kubels and puma's is indeed somewhat op one some maps. but the kubel itself is fine.

Kubel it's not fine. Not against USF that is. As I said it in another topic here, I think it needs a narrower arc of fire (not by much) and a little health decrease, but most probably if Relic will rework the kubel, they will throw it into oblivion and will make it completely useless, as they did with other units that needed just a small touch.
It depends on map also. The bigger advantage for kubel it's on narrow maps and open maps (without buildings).

it just need health decrease that's all need to be done.

Welcome to another episode of 'relic has no idea what to do with units that screw with the larger meta of game progression'.

It used to be simple. Static Mg's beat up infantry, but were vulnerable to flanking due to setup/tear down times and their speed being no faster than said infantry.

Hang on, brainstorm! Let's let one army have an MG that has very little setup time. And is three times as fast as infantry. And bleeds no manpower between repairs.

GEENEEUS.

No matter WHAT relic does with it, it'll be either OP or UP. If it does the job it was designed to do, it's going to fuck up the meta. If it doesn't, there's no 'other' job for it to do right now, and it'll be UP.

It's just dumb as fuck by design.

Narrower firing cones mean nothing, it's still too fast to care about having to shuffle about.

Single unit suppression means nothing, you can just manually swap between targets because suppression stays pretty much forever if you're in combat.

HP nerfs mean nothing if it retains current utility, suppressed units do jack and only need to be suppressed for a few moments to get Sturmpio-d.

It was even good before the buffs is the bit that mystified me. Sure, it died quickly, but sturmpios repair at a rate of knots and you could just cycle out a pair. More map dependent, sure, but still good. More then enough to choke out your opponent in the early game. By the time they killed the kubels you were an entire tier or two ahead of your enemy.

Shhh-logic has no place here.

Instead, we need to remove Merge from Cons--the utility is overwhelming.

I was going to reply to Brachiaraidos, but he's already made up his mind and nothing will ever change that, he'll complain until OKW is scrapped from the game.

I was going to reply to Brachiaraidos, but he's already made up his mind and nothing will ever change that, he'll complain until OKW is scrapped from the game.

I suppose the sole thought that OKW might be too strong at the moment makes you feel real, physical pain, right?
Can't really see other explanation of why you are in so deep denial that OKW is THE best faction at all stages of the game in all game modes currently and after never ending stream of buffs it might need a nerf now as devs-as per usual-over did it.

I suppose the sole thought that OKW might be too strong at the moment makes you feel real, physical pain, right?
Can't really see other explanation of why you are in so deep denial that OKW is THE best faction at all stages of the game in all game modes currently and after never ending stream of buffs it might need a nerf now as devs-as per usual-over did it.

I agree with you about the OKW (though for the hard-of-hearing/visually impaired)I am not a 'fanboi' (sic) of either faction.

Increase setup or reduce health.

I think it should have a 'lockdown' type of ability that makes it unable to move and gives it the bonus suppression. When not using that ability it should be like a regular scout car/jeep so it's good for sniper hunting but deal no suppression. The ability should have a long setup and tear down and it probably should not be able to fire during. So pretty similar to how flak HT used to be.

I suppose the sole thought that OKW might be too strong at the moment makes you feel real, physical pain, right?
Can't really see other explanation of why you are in so deep denial that OKW is THE best faction at all stages of the game in all game modes currently and after never ending stream of buffs it might need a nerf now as devs-as per usual-over did it.

I wish you wouldn't blindly attack people like that, Katitof. I don't even play OKW, and personally I find them difficult. I was responding to his whiny "X is impossible to balance, better remove it" attitude.

The Kubelwagen can easily be balanced if they did 2 of the following, reduce the health to 160 and rear armour to 1.5 (Give them back at Vet 3) and/or increase setup time by 50-100%.

I wish you wouldn't blindly attack people like that, Katitof. I don't even play OKW, and personally I find them difficult. I was responding to his whiny "X is impossible to balance, better remove it" attitude.

I was going to reply to Brachiaraidos, but he's already made up his mind and nothing will ever change that, he'll complain until OKW is scrapped from the game.

Oh the irony.

The Kubelwagen can easily be balanced if they did 2 of the following, reduce the health to 160 and rear armour to 1.5 (Give them back at Vet 3) and/or increase setup time by 50-100%.

Have you looked at my player card lately?

I used the kubelwagen before. It was silly then- unless you're on a map with a building, it was just as 'I win' as before, but people kept being dumb and letting them get flanked.

Now that people seem to have collectively used their brain and cottoned onto proper kubel use, it's only going to keep getting used properly. Starting with SturmPios + Super fast suppression platform = instant choke point = massive early advantage. Which, unless you're terrible or goof up, means a win.

Now some building heavy/very small and clustered maps are exempt, but the general point remains.

There is NO good way to have a suppression platform that mobile, un-suppressable and incapable of bleeding MP.

If the kubel was just recon, utility and light damage, it would be fine. The Mg34 could be in the T0/1 building and everything would be dandy.

Relic goofed. This is never going to be a unit that can work but still not be OP. The very function it has been designed for is early game breaking.

Oh the irony.



Have you looked at my player card lately?

I used the kubelwagen before. It was silly then- unless you're on a map with a building, it was just as 'I win' as before, but people kept being dumb and letting them get flanked.

Now that people seem to have collectively used their brain and cottoned onto proper kubel use, it's only going to keep getting used properly. Starting with SturmPios + Super fast suppression platform = instant choke point = massive early advantage. Which, unless you're terrible or goof up, means a win.

Now some building heavy/very small and clustered maps are exempt, but the general point remains.

There is NO good way to have a suppression platform that mobile, un-suppressable and incapable of bleeding MP.

If the kubel was just recon, utility and light damage, it would be fine. The Mg34 could be in the T0/1 building and everything would be dandy.

Relic goofed. This is never going to be a unit that can work but still not be OP. The very function it has been designed for is early game breaking.

Yeah, I think the most baffling of all is how the unit was terribly designed from the get go.

I mean, after the Maxim and how much of a nightmare it is to balance, you'd figure Relic would have understood that an MG that is too mobile brings about lots of issues. The one thing that balances MGs is that they're static and vulnerable to flanking. This concept was damaged by the Maxim's fast setup time, but it still remained true.

When you pet an MG on a vehicle, however, unless you also make it unable to properly reverse/have a teardown time, you pretty much cancel out that key weakness. A vehicle, unless it's as lumbering as a KT, is much less vulnerable to any kind of flanks than a static MG. It doesn't bleed MP, isn't vulnerable to traditional anti-MG tools like mortars and snipers, and can reposition far more easily than a normal MG. When said vehicle also happens to be the fastest in the damn game, you've pretty much made sure no amounts of flanking will ever take this bad boy out unless the OKW player is comatose. And since it's an MG, attacking from the front won't work either. So until you get AT, what the hell are you supposed to do outside of cheese or situational strategies? To beat a 240 mp no fuel unit coming out of T1? Come the fuck on.

And I agree with Katitof: OKW is now the strongest faction in the game, or at least feels like it. The only thing that reined it in a bit was its so-so early game, but between tougher Sturms, reliable Volks and the Konigskubel even that is gone now. For its price, the Kubel was perfectly fine pre-buff, if not already pretty powerful. I baffles me that Relic thought a mobile MG needed so big a buff.

Should be able to decrew the gunman!

Oh the irony.




There is NO good way to have a suppression platform that mobile, un-suppressable and incapable of bleeding MP.

If the kubel was just recon, utility and light damage, it would be fine.

Maxim is also fairly mobile, also unsuppressable (you can suppress but it'll still shoot) and had such low reinforce costs, the bleed was negligible. Now the Kubel has appeared, people who defended the Maxim are complaining. Yet I have not seen even 1 replay with 6-8 Kubels and I've seen dozens with that many Maxims.

Because the Soviets have great counters to the Kubel.


Don't get me wrong, I'm against having suppression units that can be spammed. It slows the game to a crawl and makes it boring as hell. Which is what Maxims were doing for so long. The point of my post is why people who defended the Maxim tooth and nail are now complaining about a unit that causes exactly the same problem but which can be countered in T1/T2 by soviets.


"If the kubel was just recon, utility and light damage, it would be fine."

Strange I've never seen you or any soviet-biased player (I'm axis biased, sure) say this about the M3HT. That unit has cost this game more players than any other. minimum fun maximum frustration.

ive been messing around me and my buddy going 2 kubels each in a 2v2 and I figured out this might be the best thing to do its soooooo powerful. try this stuff guys real talk

Maxim is also fairly mobile, also unsuppressable (you can suppress but it'll still shoot) and had such low reinforce costs, the bleed was negligible. Now the Kubel has appeared, people who defended the Maxim are complaining. Yet I have not seen even 1 replay with 6-8 Kubels and I've seen dozens with that many Maxims.

Because the Soviets have great counters to the Kubel.


Don't get me wrong, I'm against having suppression units that can be spammed. It slows the game to a crawl and makes it boring as hell. Which is what Maxims were doing for so long. The point of my post is why people who defended the Maxim tooth and nail are now complaining about a unit that causes exactly the same problem but which can be countered in T1/T2 by soviets.


"If the kubel was just recon, utility and light damage, it would be fine."

Strange I've never seen you or any soviet-biased player (I'm axis biased, sure) say this about the M3HT. That unit has cost this game more players than any other. minimum fun maximum frustration.

A supressed maxim will deal less damage (and supression?) and won't be able to move or turn if pinned. If we add that it gets wiped on retreat...

Dealing with maxim spam is annoying but not OP (1v1). But effective for the amount of effort needed. This is a problem with maxim and conscript design. If maxim where designed to be MG and not LMG with supression, we would have maybe a "proper" use of it. Theres a reason spamming maxims is effective but using it as "support" for your conscripts doesn't work as well.

M3: you can see what is he teching. Its either Penals (lol), snipers (damn) or M3 what is going to be coming from it. It cost fuel, it requires your CE to build T1. On the other hand we have a T0 unit (this was also my concern with the Dodge, but that was doctrinal and had a lacking late game potential).

After that being adressed: what is your opinion with Kubel vs USF. Who cares, right?

A supressed maxim will deal less damage (and supression?) and won't be able to move or turn if pinned. If we add that it gets wiped on retreat...

Dealing with maxim spam is annoying but not OP (1v1). But effective for the amount of effort needed. This is a problem with maxim and conscript design. If maxim where designed to be MG and not LMG with supression, we would have maybe a "proper" use of it. Theres a reason spamming maxims is effective but using it as "support" for your conscripts doesn't work as well.

M3: you can see what is he teching. Its either Penals (lol), snipers (damn) or M3 what is going to be coming from it. It cost fuel, it requires your CE to build T1. On the other hand we have a T0 unit (this was also my concern with the Dodge, but that was doctrinal and had a lacking late game potential).

After that being adressed: what is your opinion with Kubel vs USF. Who cares, right?

Oh smell the hypocrisy and double standards. The kubel is a maxim on wheels and thus it has the same counters: light vehicles or overwhelming firepower. the soviets and the usf has access to light vehicles then the ostheer . their is no excuse for it to completely fuck up your early game.
most usf and soviet players however completely overextend themselves and have not learned to be defensive while you pump out the adequate counters.

Here is a question for everyone. Dose the OKW need the Kubel to be a MG? Why not just make it like the M3 or other scout cars that support inf fighting other inf or to hunt down and killing snipers. I mean i don't see the need for the kuble to be an MG in the OKW line up were there inf win the majority of match ups. Not to mention they have the MG43 in 2 of their doctrines, and a AA halftrack, AA emplacements, bunkers and AA bases that also suppress inf. These alone I think cover the suppression need of the OKW.