Are kubelwagens OP

Jump back to quoted post22 Sep 2014, 16:46 PMSpanky

I have plenty in the replay section.

Jump back to quoted post22 Sep 2014, 06:49 AMJaigen

Oh smell the hypocrisy and double standards. The kubel is a maxim on wheels and thus it has the same counters: light vehicles or overwhelming firepower. the soviets and the usf has access to light vehicles then the ostheer . their is no excuse for it to completely fuck up your early game.
most usf and soviet players however completely overextend themselves and have not learned to be defensive while you pump out the adequate counters.

Jump back to quoted post22 Sep 2014, 14:21 PMBlitzPuppet

They are not OP, they are glass vehicles that get absolutely murdered if you don't micro. Their pathing is still horrible for the most part, Maxims tear through them, as does any small arms fire, let conscripts get close and say hello to their devastating AT nades.

Germans have had to put up with Maxim spam with mortar support, and fighting position nades/mgs...now allies have to put up with kubels which are only viable early game.

Jump back to quoted post13 Sep 2014, 17:22 PMAbdul

Below are the kubel key stats in comparison to other early light vehicles. Figures in red highlight the balance problem with this unit.




Looking at those numbers in the order listed above there are several problems including:

Target size (10) is too small, which makes hitting kubel with an AT gun at far distance (accuracy .04 for zis) hard. You have basically 40% chance of hitting kubel. And getting closer doesn't improve your chances so much. You have to be right next to it to get a 60% chance of hitting it. This unit needs at least a 15 target size to make at guns effective against it.

Acceleration at 4.5 is the fastest that I know of in the game and only the OKW puma has this kind of acceleration. In comparison all other early light vehicles have around 2 acceleration (less than half). This is the main reason why the kubel can avoid counters effectively and get out of flanks so easily. This number need to be brought down to be inline with other light vehicles.

Sight at 50 is the same for all of those units but given the kubel is essentially a mobile mg it should not have that much sight. This enables it to go solo, hunting unsuspecting units and suppressing them before they know its there (infantry have 35 sight), and this is exactly whats happening now. Sight should be brought down to at least 35 like all mgs and even I encourage bringing down all support weapons sight to 30, so that they can never go solo and be effective like the maxim is so well know to be.

Damage at 17.4 near and 4.8 far is insane in this unit, and while one can argue that suppressed units take less damage so its not effective as it appears it has almost double the dps of an m3 at near range. Even with less armor the kubel can take on the m3 which requires teching and cost fuel. Damage or penetration need to be reduced on this vehicle.

Penetration is actually higher than the m3 which brings the question why a mobile mg has this kind of pentarion. If damage is left the same this figure needs to go down so that the kubel can't counter everything including its own counters like the m3 and dodge truck.

Looking at those stats and experiencing it in game, the kubel was tuned into a super unit that requires no teching and costs no fuel and can take on all early counters and get out of most flanks with ease. Its combination of acceleration, sight, damage, penetration, and the fact that it requires no setup time like all other mgs and suppresses units before the first burst is complete makes the kubel the perfect example of an over powered unit. I just wonder how long it will take relic to fix this mess. Judging by the last mess (katyusha) it might be soon hopefully.

edit: This unit requires a fuel cost to minimize spamming and or a performance reduction to make it function properly in the early game.

Jump back to quoted post23 Sep 2014, 04:16 AMfrostbite

this guy knows what hes talking about

Jump back to quoted post22 Sep 2014, 18:38 PMelchino7

Oh, but having wheels is what matters all along. And if you mention that USF has access to light vehicles you are just ignorant that you are either going for a M20 (which gets heavy countered by T3) or a AA HT (which gets countered by a Puma) and that takes time. Meanwhile you are behind on the first 5 mins.

Jump back to quoted post23 Sep 2014, 07:10 AMJaigen

WTF are you doing with that m20? you dont shoot the puma with it you lure it over a m20 mine or use the zook.

Jump back to quoted post25 Sep 2014, 18:37 PMMr. Someguy

Kubel's stats are now it's previous incarnate, the only difference is it kept the range and arc of the new one.

Jump back to quoted post25 Sep 2014, 19:31 PMJaigen

in short nothing changed i didnt buy the kubel for dps back then or now. suppression is still their

Jump back to quoted post25 Sep 2014, 19:38 PMMr. Someguy

Kubel is OKW's suppression, no shit it's still there.

Jump back to quoted post25 Sep 2014, 20:02 PMJaigen

and thats why people where complaining about it

Jump back to quoted post25 Sep 2014, 20:33 PMEsxile

First game vs a OKW, fast Kubel push and it is still effective...

Jump back to quoted post26 Sep 2014, 05:36 AMJohnnyB

And what did you expect? A nerfing to the ground to make it useless?

Jump back to quoted post26 Sep 2014, 09:40 AMelchino7

A delay of 120s for the first truck to arrive ?