Upcoming Comander Update - Wishes

2) M3 -Remove requirement to tech Weapon Racks. Double fuel investment for a fragile moving weapons rack is a big turnoff. Alternative is PIAT from M3 is Elite Piat (balance cost as needed)

Imagine if one ever gets abandoned and captured by germans, all those vickers and piats in german hands.
What I mean is that I'm pretty sure this is one of the reasons why weapon drops still have the tech requirement, unlike the usf lmg. Also, while the usf lmg doesn't need to be unlocked it doesn't supplement the bar or zook, while the vickers + piat drop pretty much supplements the default bren + piat drop.
Additionally the M3 has an insanely large reinforce radius at vet3 and thanks to shared veterancy it's not that hard to achieve, negating any fragility. Both pio squads on this image stand on the very edge of those HT's reinforcement radius.

I agree and it is nice to see that my suggestions from 2018 are being suggested by other people.

Lol

Please rework command p4. Make it a better combat unit with timed command abilities. A shitty combat unit that has one gimmick isn't fun to play with or against imo

**cough** B4 in Tank Hunter tactics **cough**

Agreed on Partisans. Combining AT and AI Partisans into a single unit that can upgrade instantly with either SMG, Molotovs and Grenades or Panzerschreck and AT Grenades seems like a good starting point, as it would free up an ability slot. Plus, it would buff to Reserve Army too.

However, I bet that either Anti-Infatry Tactics or Terror Tactics will get a refresh instead of Shock Army, as those two share 3 identical abilities between. I think that's a record right now.

EDIT: My bad, Ostheer's Fortified Armor and Blitzkrieg Doctrines also share 3 abilities (Panzer Tactician, Stuka Recon Overflight and Command Tank).

TBH i wouldn't mind if we deleted 1 or 2 commanders from EFA and just give people 15/30K in supply.

The commanders you mention i feel are less that they are bad, it's just that generally there are others which offer similar things or better.

I don't mind if there are commanders that share many abilities if at least they have something unique. For example, Fortified Armor with the Elephant.

As far as unique abilities goes which could go to other commanders in order to diversify them we have:

OH: Stun grenades, Single AT and AI strafes, Opel Blitz, Pinning Stuka Strafing run, Defensive fortifications, Breakthrough, break the supply line, close the pocket, VSL, Assault n Hold, Jaeger command Squad, Airdropped medical supplies, Counter attack, Puma, Osstruppen Reserves, Supply Drop, PIV J, Breakthrough equipment, Mobile Obs Post.

SU: SVT, (Airborne rally/Guard Airborne), IL2 Rocket, FMR, B4, Advanced fortifications, M4C Sherman, M5 Assault Group, Scorched Earth, Commisar, Partisans AI, Spy Network, Repair station, Conscripts PTRS, PTAB, FHQ, Booby Trap,

Please make certain doctrines weaker so there is more variety in team games. I can't stand playing vs Jäger Armour, Artillery Regiment, both ISU doctrines, soviet airbone and both USF calliope doctrines every single game. Make more doctrines viable by nerfing OP ones.

If you want more commander variety you are going to have to give those factions acceptable stock alternatives. No one wants to play a game with one arm strapped behind their back.

Commanders can't be the spice if you need them just to make the roux.

Give Barrage ability to StugIII short-barrel or lower it's cp call in value, at the moment it's not usable. Rework needed on that unit to make it more viable to actually use as OST player.

Guys, you should check either:

https://coh2.win/

https://coh2index.com/index.html

Pretty easy to look at commanders and if you click on any ability it shows all commanders with that skill/unit.

wow, that's awesome, never knew those existed.

on topic:

apart from the obvious changes to team game meta commanders i'd really wish that tank hunter tactics gets another revision.

the tank hunter package feels a bit lackluster already in live, but with the upcoming changes to penal ptrs it will be even more redundant. if performance tweaks turn out to be out of scope, i'd at least hope to see it merged with those light vehicle mines noone ever builds to free up a slot for something more useful.

oh, and also +1 to whoever proposed to swap the ml20 with the b4. i know this thing currently sits in only one doctrine for a reason, but it would fit so much better thematically than the regular howie.

I'm sure I can think of a bit more, but these are the first that come to mind.

1. Off-map "friendly fire" damage multiplier standardized. Some off map abilities do full friendly fire, others do half, others do nearly zero: can we standardize this? My vote would be for 50% FF.

2. Any off-map "recon flares" (essentially OWK and UKF) replaced by standard recon planes. I don't think this is very controversial, and should be done for both consistency, and as a way to make the ability have a counter.

3. OKW (Elite Armor) Remove the sturmtiger decrew-on-reload chance. This doesn't make a lot of sense, and doesn't match the UKF's AVRE (which historically also had a vulnerable reloading procedure). Possibly increase the range by +5 (maybe with vet?) to compensate for the low projectile arc often causing the rocket to land short.

4. USF (Tactical Support) Slightly increase the "wind up" time on the Calliope barrage. It's currently nearly impossible to react if this is used at close range. Alternatively, increase the minimum range.

5. Sov (Sov Industry) "repair station" and OST (Defensive Doc) "reinforced repair bunker" given minor pop costs (3?). This is pretty niche, but there are team-games where one (or a few) players build several of these, allowing for their team's armor to be repaired nearly instantly.

6. OKW (Feuersturm) Flame-Hetzer no longer requires Panzer Auth, instead requires 3-5 points. Right now it shows up too late in terms of tech. Considering that it's a case-mate tank with moderate armor and zero AT power, it's almost always better to save up a bit more fuel for a P4. Allowing it to arrive earlier (but not too early due to point reqs and still requiring T3) would give it a bit more impact.

7. Soviet (Urban Defense doc) "Forward Headquarters" ability increased to 2 points (from 1). On some this ability arrives too early and has an insane impact; such as when used on the train stations on Lienne Forest and Ettlebruck Station. Considering it can be used to make any building password protected, arriving before most or any indirect fire is available seems a bit much. Alternatively, if possible, give it a "setup time" instead, to allow the ability to be countered.

8. OST (Jaeger Armor) "Spotting Scopes" no longer go on Elefants. This gives an 80 range TD effectively self-spotting, which is a bit much.

9. OST/OKW (multiple docs) LeFH "Counter Barrage" replaced with something else. The amount of damage this does with zero user input is a bit much. Perhaps replacing it with something like a "precision barrage", where it fires 1-2 rounds (with more delay between them) but with half the scatter (and a shared cooldown).

10. OKW (Spec Ops) "Radio Silence" replaced with a copy of OST's "Ambush Training". This ability is pretty '4th wall breaking' in the sense that it affects the game UI to hide units; replacing it with an in-game variant (infantry/team weps can cloak) seems similar in concept.

[...]
9. OST/OKW (multiple docs) LeFH "Counter Barrage" replaced with something else. The amount of damage this does with zero user input is a bit much. Perhaps replacing it with something like a "precision barrage", where it fires 1-2 rounds (with more delay between them), but with half the scatter (and a shared cooldown).
[...]

although i'd be in favor of tweaking counter barrage (e.g. cooldown, damage) instead of outright replacing it, a precision strike ability would make for a nice alternative (or a good vet 1 ability for the ml-20).
however, i'd implement it in a different form (akin to zeroing artillery) where the first couple of shells have regular, or increased scatter with regards to the normal barrage, but scatter is reduced with each consecutive shot until the last shell hits almost pin point accurate. this would make it strong against immobile targets but give anything with legs or wheels enough time to relocate.

talking of a commander rework to ukf i i can say that most pp here agree that advance emplacement regiment should be the priority one. So the following is my ideal.
- 0cp: defensive operation: this now allow section to built and repair emplacement, kind of ok-ish and can be keep. but if possible, i want it to be changed to more like rifleman field defensive, instead of build and repair emplacement, section will now have access to mg bunker, lay mine and built sandbags/trench at a faster speed (the upcoming patch is neftting sandbags built speed so the ability will ideally allow section to built sandbags as fast as pre-neft)
- 3cp: advance assembly replace by stand fast. The advance assembly as now require too much mp (400mp) but too easily destroyed by indirect while proving ineffective repair rate as repair engineer can be killed and nolonger instant re-dispatch. Replace it with stand fast will allow player to actively chose when to get his emplacements repaired and to know certain rate/amount of repair he will get. The advance assembly should be change to only repair vehicle and go to other commander.
- 3cp: improve fortification: keep as now.
- 4 counter battery: it is uncounterable in small map while being useless on larger map, so no reason to keep. I suggest replace it with hold the line. May be hold the line itself can be rework to be cheaper, available earlier and only provide the buff to infantry (no more rocket plane).
- 10cp: Precision Barrage: Good and powerful ability i would love to keep.

Overall im trying to keep the theme of the commander which is defensively with bonus to both infantry and emplacements combine with artillery support. As one can notice that the uniform of him belong to the royal artillery and the name "advance emplacement regiment" should still mean something, so i chose not to mix in vehicle/plane-relative abilities like command vehicle or command valentine and event removed air support in hold the line.

On teamgame USF feel like half faction without the Calliope, you can do whatever your want to balance other commanders but it doesn't change the fact that you can't breakup team weapon wall that are more than common on teamgame without it.

+1

I do agree going from 4 shots to 3. that's the only nerf I see fit.

I do agree going from 4 shots to 3. that's the only nerf I see fit.

For the record the Calliope has always been a 3 shots to kill with 480 health. Recently it was changed to 400 to make it more vulnerable to counter/offmap barrages and the Stuka Dive Bomb.

As it's only really effective/wipey at close range to mid range, I would personally keep its lethality but further decrease its durability (to 320 hp and 110 armor) to increase its "shotgun" use from medium risk high reward to high risk high reward, as this decreased durability would make it significantly more vulnerable to counter attacks.

If it comes with a price reducting / changing CP requirement for build time, you can even make it two shot down.

My Partisan rework below, although I was also working on an alternate version where the Sappers sidegrade into AT Partisans and add a utility ability to the now-freed slot. Radio Intercept and Vehicle Detection are prime candidates, but I was also considering something that would allow them to sap resources ala PE's Funkwagen.

If one of the redundant Ostheer Commanders could become Kriegsbeute Doctrine, that'd be fantastic.

A couple of personal opinions, mostly for 2v2 and 3v3 teamgames:

USF
- Needs to become more independent of the Calliope. I played a lot of 3v3 recently and every single game I felt like I was almost forced to chose a Calliope commander because otherwise we would not be able to keep up with the wipes and bleed out. USF get's really boring really quickly because of that.
- My personal opinion is that the 1919 LMGs on Rifles are not good enough compared to barred up ones, but I have seen others make good use of them.
- doctrinal tanks, including the M10, need a larger overhaul. There are just too many variants and none of them bring a clear advantage over some combination of the stock Sherman and Jackson (team game perspective).


OKW
- doctrines are in a decent spot for the most part.
- However I feel like Panzerfusiliere need a slight late game nerf.
- Assault package could use a small late game buff
- Also a small plant time buff for flare traps (early warning)
- Sector assault should be cheaper and do less damage. Even with AA these planes can tear your units apart.
- Spec Ops flare needs rework (enhanced vision for units when active)
- Radio silence needs rework (would interact best with enhanced cloaking for standard units when active)

UKF
- in team games fully relies on Royal Arty commander. UKF suffers the same fate as USF with Calliopes.
- designate command vehicle needs a rework to work better on normal vehicles as well (in exchange for weaker aura)
- infiltration commandos need a price decrease
- flares need rework

SOV (probably the faction that needs the most work)
- partisans need redesign. As previously suggested I would like to see them as a high utility, low fighting power unit. SOV desperatly need a camo unit and partisans are thematically the most interesting ones in the game. I would love to see them again. Personally my most important point in this list.
- rapid conscription rework to reinforcement cost decrease
- ISU and IL2 bombing strike need to be decoupled
- propaganda arty could use some rework (no idea yet though)
- commissar could also get a more meta role
- Conscript repairs could do with a very slight increase in repair speed
- Con PpsH could use a small rework to be more competitive with the 7 men Cons
- slight KV1 nerf (maybe nerf speed even more?)

OST
- Overall, not an awful lot wrong with these commanders
- Call-ins of infantry+LV packages could be tweaked.
- Nerf to sector artillery performance (+ maybe cost decrease)
- Elefant should not have spotting scopes
- StuKa bombing strike and reconnaissance flight should not be in the same doctrine
- personally I would like to see ambush training in more commanders
- relief infantry rework to reduced reinforcement cost

For the record the Calliope has always been a 3 shots to kill with 480 health. Recently it was changed to 400 to make it more vulnerable to counter/offmap barrages and the Stuka Dive Bomb.

As it's only really effective/wipey at close range to mid range, I would personally keep its lethality but further decrease its durability (to 320 hp and 110 armor) to increase its "shotgun" use from medium risk high reward to high risk high reward, as this decreased durability would make it significantly more vulnerable to counter attacks.

I had the feeling it was 3 shots but wasn't sure. Anyway, how would the new stats look on the board then?

With the balance patch hopefully coming out soon, the update after that will focus on commanders.

My suggestion for new commanders:

Soviet

Soviet Infantry Doctrine

-Radio Intercept
-Forward HQ
-Conscript Assault Package
-Conscript PTRS Package
-Conscript Repair Kit


OST

Urban Defense Tactics

-Assault Grenadiers
-Defensive Fortifications
-Assault and Hold
-Stug III Ausf. E
-Hull Down

I can point an adjustment to recon abilities like flares and airplane recon, to no reveal camouflaged units.

1. Off-map "friendly fire" damage multiplier standardized. Some off-map abilities do full friendly fire, others do half, others do nearly zero: can we standardize this? My vote would be for 50% FF.

Agree... I vote for 100% friendly fire damage.

7. Soviet (Urban Defense doc) "Forward Headquarters" ability increased to 2 points (from 1). On some this ability arrives too early and has an insane impact.

I agree that its have a heavy impact on the early game, but is only on the early game this doctrine is good, they already nerfed it replacing the "incendiary Barrage" for "45mm AT gun" (by the way, needs to change the description of this commander, still describing the barrage).

I suggest a nerf replacing the KV-2 with "Advanced Fortifications" allowing engineers to build vehicles blocks and placing anti-infantry mines, making it closer to the "Urban Defense" name.

9. OST/OKW (multiple docs) LeFH "Counter Barrage" replaced with something else. The amount of damage this does with zero user input is a bit much. Perhaps replacing it with something like a "precision barrage", where it fires 1-2 rounds (with more delay between them) but with half the scatter (and a shared cooldown).

100% Agree.

Please for Ostheer commanders REPLACE:

The mechanized grenadier group ( 430Mp, 20f, 2CP call in) from German mechanized doctrine
AND
The mechanized assault group (490MP, 20f, 2CP call in) from mechanized assault doctrine

WITH
Sd.Kfz 250/1 halftrack (210MP, 20f, req BP1 to build from HQ) from German infantry doctrine

These two call in abilities are very outdated in balance design, super marginal and could easily be replaced with the more versatile and up to date option of being able to build the 250/1 from HQ after teching BP1. This change should be a no brainer.

EDIT:

I also cast my vote for removing and replacing the off map abilities from commanders with heavy TDs such as removing the stuka bomb from ostheers Jaeger armor doctrine and removing the IL-2 strike from soviets mechanized support tactics and shock motor heavy tactics.

TBH i wouldn't mind if we deleted 1 or 2 commanders from EFA and just give people 15/30K in supply.

The commanders you mention i feel are less that they are bad, it's just that generally there are others which offer similar things or better.

I don't mind if there are commanders that share many abilities if at least they have something unique. For example, Fortified Armor with the Elephant.

[...]

EDIT: Hit "post" prematurely.

I too would prefer quality and uniqueness over quantity when it comes to the commanders, but since we have to play with cards we've been dealt, might as well make the best of them.

Out of Terror Tactics and Anti-Infantry Tactics, I'd say that the latter is worse. Fear Propaganda Artillery and Incendiary Artillery arguably have overlap in their use cases, but I think that the latter is better simply because it's reliable and its effect is far less random than Fear Propaganda. As others have mentioned in the thread, Fear Propaganda could use a little touch up to make it less random.

Speaking of ele\Isu commanders. Here what how I think it can be fixed

Stuka replaced with luft Incendiary Bombing Run


IL-2 bombing run replaced with advanced IL-2 Sturmovik Attacks