[Winter Balance Update] General Discussion

Can you guys please stop that nonsense panther acc discussion by atleast providing source from THE ACTUAL PREPATCH MOD showing it might be prolematic?

Indeed, thank you.



I put forth my humble suggestion again: The accuracy increase to counteract silly instances of RNG, like those in some videos posted before and those that anyone that plays with a Panther regularly notices, is welcome and important given the Panther's patch history. However, to compensate properly, its maximum speed could be reduced thereby increasing the attractiveness of its "Blitz" Vet1 ability which is first and foremost a mobility boost.


Alternatively, this accuracy bonus could be tied with veterancy in whole or in part, as is being currently proposed, noting that Panthers are much more difficult to get veterancy with compared to the heavy TDs of its equivalent class.

Keep in mind that Panthers fight on the move, they don't fire mostly stationary as the TDs it is being compared to.


The outcry and amount of posts on this matter surpasses all expectation. It's as if Panthers dominate automatch, dominated the last tournament and those before it. When the preview patch mod dropped I was expecting fierce discussions on the annoying meta units, the QoL improvements and the reworking of underperforming core units.

It is also a vehicle that is more expensive than both mediums and heavy TDs.

The advantages it has come with at a price, so comparing without taking into account the cost is rather misleading.

Its not the panther cant do both jobs now does it? That comes with a price. Ingoring that and keep comparing it to td's is also misleading. Its a mix of both and has heavy tank stats as well. It comes at a price.

Its not the panther cant do both jobs now does it? That comes with a price. Ingoring that and keep comparing it to td's is also misleading. Its a mix of both and has heavy tank stats as well. It comes at a price.

It does not do the job of medium. You are trying to present Panther as all around unit when clearly that is not the case.

If you want to continue comparing units that do not serve the same role compare the Panther with the Comet which at least has a closer price.

You will see that it also has extra armor, extra HP, heavy crush, extra range and a number of other goodies.

I don't argue about the Jackson being stronger than it's price suggests, but we've had plenty of discussion about this already in other threads, so I'll leave it at the note that in my opinion this is due to USF faction design that otherwise has no reliable and easily available high pen unit.

Panther and Jackson are both "jack of all trades". The Panther is just more expensive an durable.

Overall though, I'd say comparing the Panther to the Jackson without faction context is pretty flawed by design.

Well, I wasnt even making this complacent to begin with. "Jackson OP" was brought into the disscusstion and compared to panther. Jackson can be and should be compared to the FF\JP4\SU-85 and that it over-all has all the advantages of a proper TD + on top of that some they dont have. This what I was saying regarding Jackson.

As for panther, what I was mentioning are the advantages over other TDs IF one want to draw clear line between them and compare them directly.

While I also do agree, that panther is also jack of all trades and its a TD oriented tank, its a competly different unit and it shouldn't be compared with other TDs.

Well, I wasnt even making this complacent to begin with. "Jackson OP" was brought into the disscusstion and compared to panther. Jackson can be and should be compared to the FF\JP4\SU-85 and that it over-all has all the advantages of a proper TD + on top of that some they dont have. This what I was saying regarding Jackson.

As for panther, what I was mentioning are the advantages over other TDs IF one want to draw clear line between them and compare them directly.

While I also do agree, that panther is also jack of all trades and its a TD oriented tank, its a competly different unit and it shouldn't be compared with other TDs.

I am not sure why all the fuss about what Panther classification is. What is important is the role it has and that is to counter vehicles.

That fact that it does by actually slagging it out instead of sniping from distance hardy makes an important difference.

Replying to the post in UKF discussions, here is a list of similar units that could share abilities when both are selected:

Ostheer:
-Grenadiers and Ostruppen - faust, medikit, field defenses
-Pz.4 and Pz.4 J

Soviets:
-T34/76 and T34/85

OKW:
-Panther and Command Panther

USF:
-Sherman and Sherman 76 or Sherman Ez8 - smoke screen, hold fire, prioritize vehicles

UKF:
-Royal Engineers and Recovery Engineers

It does not do the job of medium. You are trying to present Panther as all around unit when clearly that is not the case.

If you want to continue comparing units that do not serve the same role compare the Panther with the Comet which at least has a closer price.

You will see that it also has extra armor, extra HP, heavy crush, extra range and a number of other goodies.

At least the panther has ai. Its closer to filling in for generalist then allied td ever will.

You and other keep saying its a td and thus deserves the acc buff with vet cuz allied td's get that already, while ignoring its higher hp its higher armour its better mobility due to heavy crush while ignoring the factions they are in. You just look at td's and panthers and cherry pick what td's are good at and what panthers suposedly are lackin in. With no further context.

The panthers is not a td its not a medium its not a heavy. Its a mix of the 3. Taking the strongest atributes of 2 of them.

You do know the comet is deemed op for a while now do you? And the panthers has a simaler cost and deserves a buff somehow?

QoL request: hold fire for HMGs.
This ability would have dual purpose: for one, and most importantly, it would prevent a HMG squad from automaticly deploying, which most of the times results in a terrible angle and consequent retreat. Secondly, when smartly microed, it would allow HMGs to ambush approaching squads from closer, even if they spotted them far away. Right now HMGs automaticly fire at squads at the edge of their range, which may allow them to crawl out before getting pinned.

At least the panther has ai. Its closer to filling in for generalist then allied td ever will.

You and other keep saying its a td and thus deserves the acc buff with vet cuz allied td's get that already, while ignoring its higher hp its higher armour its better mobility due to heavy crush while ignoring the factions they are in. You just look at td's and panthers and cherry pick what td's are good at and what panthers suposedly are lackin in. With no further context.

The panthers is not a td its not a medium its not a heavy. Its a mix of the 3. Taking the strongest atributes of 2 of them.

You do know the comet is deemed op for a while now do you? And the panthers has a simaler cost and deserves a buff somehow?

Once more, it does not matter what you call it is vehicle with role of countering other vehicles.

Comet in main battle tank with dual purpose gun, grenades, smoke, WP with the role of countering both hard and soft targets.

Reading comprehension 404.

Isn't that petty "discussion" about phrasing while the actual meaning is pretty clear exactly what you usually complain about?

If it was, you wouldn't get that other post from me.
And yeah, I'm complaining about it while also using relatively simple language myself, so it is rather impossible to misinterpret me.
So far only 1 person struggles.

https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/comment/288466#Comment_288466

New update has arrived with some changes for all the factions. We've taken note of a couple of issues and have also done a few changes to speed up testing - see Osttruppen.

Chance of lowering down the vehicle crit threshold to 20% ?

https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/comment/288466#Comment_288466

New update has arrived with some changes for all the factions. We've taken note of a couple of issues and have also done a few changes to speed up testing - see Osttruppen.

Thank you for your work, these are very well thought upon and I look forward to testing them.


The innovations for the UKF are very interesting.

Chance of lowering down the vehicle crit threshold to 20% ?

That would mean meds would be completely exempt from them unless faced specifically infantry AT.

That would mean meds would be completely exempt from them unless faced specifically infantry AT.

As it should be.
Or when they are not fully repaired.
Or hit by other soft units/abilities outside of 160dmg tank/AT guns.

As it should be.
Or when they are not fully repaired.
Or hit by other soft units/abilities outside of 160dmg tank/AT guns.

That's boring though. As more and more features are peeled away from the game in favor of cold hard consistency, I begin to wonder if a separate tournament mode with more classic RTS mechanics (all attacks connect and deal damage with no rng accuracy or deflection) would have been a better path. What is the point of keeping random criticals around if they're relegated to obscurity? Most players are in casual team games, and while some consistency is good, overly sterilizing the game risks losing some of the flavor.

That's boring though. As more and more features are peeled away from the game in favor of cold hard consistency, I begin to wonder if a separate tournament mode with more classic RTS mechanics (all attacks connect and deal damage with no rng accuracy or deflection) would have been a better path. What is the point of keeping random criticals around if they're relegated to obscurity? Most players are in casual team games, and while some consistency is good, overly sterilizing the game risks losing some of the flavor.

I agree. I think there is a very bad trend in nerfing everything in the name of consistency and balance, which might make the game perhaps more equal on paper. But that trend consistently kills the game design and fun elements a lot. It feels that patch after patch the game's fun bits are slowly tortured to death.

I agree. I think there is a very bad trend in nerfing everything in the name of consistency and balance, which might make the game perhaps more equal on paper. But that trend consistently kills the game design and fun elements a lot. It feels that patch after patch the game's fun bits are slowly tortured to death.

The biggest one right now is in my opinion plane crashes. Considering Tightrope's excellent testing video the damage reduction is too much.

The damage is almost unnoticeable, this could certainly be increased, perhaps limited to health damage or other lower impact solutions.

As it should be.
Or when they are not fully repaired.
Or hit by other soft units/abilities outside of 160dmg tank/AT guns.

I do see the point or reasoning.

But I can't say I agree with it.
Each of these things removed makes the game less unique and more boring.

If I wanted to mash raw stats vs stats, I would play AoE, RA or *gulp* iron harvest.

These crits are for CoH2 what Synch kills were for DoW2.

That's boring though. As more and more features are peeled away from the game in favor of cold hard consistency, I begin to wonder if a separate tournament mode with more classic RTS mechanics (all attacks connect and deal damage with no rng accuracy or deflection) would have been a better path. What is the point of keeping random criticals around if they're relegated to obscurity? Most players are in casual team games, and while some consistency is good, overly sterilizing the game risks losing some of the flavor.

All light vehicles are still prone for this to happen. Regardless of their HP pool

560HP lighter medium tanks still will get crit.

640HP medium tanks are the ones who benefit from it. You wouldn't suddenly "lose" your medium tank after 3 shots penetrated.

720HP remain unaffected

800HP They benefit from this but they have a bigger HP pool to play with.

Now we enter the vehicles with HP pools and armor big enough to play around the crit.

960HP unaffected

1040HP affected

1080HP unaffected

And so on.

For clarification, the crit would be moved from 25% HP to 20% HP.