[Winter Balance Update] General Discussion

The preview patch notes are out!

You can find the link to the steam Preview mod here.


We hope you will all test the preview mod extensively, and we are looking forward to your feedback! All community members are encouraged to contribute by testing the mods and providing feedback via the designated channels.

Feedback
There will be dedicated threads for feedback per faction and for bug reports, please divert all your faction specific feedback to those!
USF Feedback
OST Feedback
SOV Feedback
UKF Feedback
OKW Feedback

Bugs
Please use this thread to report any bugs you may encounter.


Scope
The focus of this patch is: Core Armies, Meta Problems, And Quality of Life Improvements.



Preview Patch notes:
Official Winter Balance Update Preview patch notes on Relic forums


General Changes
Show Spoiler


Quality of Life changes
Show Spoiler


USF
Show Spoiler


Ostheer
Show Spoiler


Soviets
Show Spoiler


UKF
Show Spoiler


OKW
Show Spoiler


Bug Fixes
Show Spoiler

More information about the deployment of the Winter Balance Patch and the 64bit and map update here.

Can a mod sticky this please

Out-fuckin'standing

why are pgrens still not at T2?


also wtf is this? why are we nerfing the worst core medium tank in the game exactly?

T34/76 and T34/85 Ram Ability

T-34/76 is having its ram ability gated behind veterancy 1 to make fresh T-34s unable to disable vehicles without spending some time accumulating veterancy due to their low cost. A number of the random criticals have also been removed. In return, Ram is being made more reliable by increasing penetration.

T-34/76 Ram now requires veterancy 1
Random criticals applied to target removed - main gun destroyed, engine destroyed, immobilized removed
Penetration from 160 to 200

T34 Ram is being "demo charged" out of the game.
No one is going to use it on a vetted tank.
Make it so it does not immobilize T34 afterwards then just soft-removing it from the game completely and if you really want to, then don't pretend, just remove it and replace it with something different.

Penal adjustment isn't going to do much to their late game scaling, because they suffer from exact same problems cons did prior to 7th man - specifically, vet alone will never scale any infantry squad into late game.

Everything else looks solid.

the T-34-76 is already the worst medium tank ingame if ram isnt factored... removing ram like this just makes the T-34-76 entirely unusable...

Calliope needs a proper nerf it is way too strong at the moment. Slight veterancy adjustment is not going to cut it.

QoL changes are all damn great. Well done on that end!

USF:

Show Spoiler

SOV:

Show Spoiler

Quick first reaction:
Best 1.0 version of a big patch in a long time!

Show Spoiler


uhmm ok soo now i have to spend 15 muni extra to do what other machineguns can do without input... fantastic...


likewise nice T-70 nerf... lets completely gut the soviet midgame while not giving the soviets earlier 7 man or a proper machinegun... way to further remove the worst faction ingame...

Clearly a good patch, still a bit timid to shake things off, but on a Richter scale we are still on a good 5, well done.

Some minor disagreement on some things (specifically the Bofors change), but otherwise this looks like an outstanding patch.

Is this the 2021 first quarter patch?

We're moving in the right direction I'd say. Skill Howie nerf is much appreciated. Also not too sure the vet nerf to the Calliope is enough but we'll see. Volks remaining as they are for inf fights is a feasible option I suppose as Obers are available earlier, but how that'll translate in practice we'll see. SP Flamethrower and minesweeper are still exclusionary unless I misread, is this intentional? Potentially too powerful I suppose.

Sniper changes nerf a real bane unit that can pick your men off np without a spotter so good their sight's reduced.

Medic QoL buff should be appreciated by virtually everyone, esp for congested fwd trucks.

EDIT: T-34 ram changes are beyond my scope of experience so I'll leave others to discuss that over. Seems a sticking point for this change.

Most things I agree with except 2 things that stand out to me.

Ram: made far less rewarding and still completing crippling to the t34 and locked behind vet.

This is really jarring considering this game is supose to be about unit preservation, why on earth is their an vet ability to cripple and almost guarantee destroy your vetted tank?

And penals, I still feel they won't be seen.

Most things I agree with except 2 things that stand out to me.

Ram: made far less rewarding and still completing crippling to the t34 and locked behind vet.

This is really jarring considering this game is supose to be about unit preservation, why on earth is their an vet ability to cripple and almost guarantee destroy your vetted tank?

And penals, I still feel they won't be seen.

Soviet onion was never about conservation. Especially not the T34. It was a tank that is used against infantry and for combos. Nothing else. It will not penetrate OKW P4. Struggle against OST P4. It's only good for RAMs.
This patch is buffing axis, which is not necessarily a bad thing since some stuff needs reworking but some of the nerfs are hitting hard on Allies. At least on first glance.

Mortar smoke
I like it, but my gripe has never been that I can't use it enough, but that when I do use it, it takes too long to arrive. The engagement has ended or the other player has displaced his units of his own accord. It's not so noticeable with the regular barrage because that's not as often used as part of a coordinated manoeuvre.

Could core mortar-crew rotation speeds be increased for all factions? I think a big reason people don't use them is their not responsive (half tracks feel noticeably more snappy). If this knocks on to the HE barrage, the ROF on both (HE and smoke) could be reduced. Individual smoke rounds last long enough so that it would just extend the overall smoked-up time for smoke barrages.

Sandbags
By treating specific units differently, it would be a lot for new players to consider the build-times in their decision making and lead them to do things when not realising some units build slower. Can the slower sandbag build speed be standardised across all non-engineer units?

HMG AP ammo
When the AP ammo ability is used, it loads a new ammo belt, correct?
Instead of a timer, can it be changed so that specific belt is the AP ammo and the ability lasts until the HMGs next reload? Reduces the ability of vehicles to just kite away or sight block for 30secs nullify the muni-investment. But the other player could also put infantry in the line of fire to use up the ammo belt. Can use the ability's timing clock to show % ammo belt remaining.

Rifleman AT nades
Reduce animation length?

LT vs CAP
With the new Stuart changes, just want to mention I'm curious how both will remain attractive?

Osttruppen
Good solution! It makes sense that willing captured hostile infantry shouldn't be readily available. The recharge nerf to just reduce their share of the force-composition is neat.

Mortar emplacement
There's not any damage change, but it's just a longer range?
To make it clearer, could the barrage be called 'super-charge barrage' or similar? 'heavy' implies it deals more damage.

T-34-76
Fair enough on the ram, it shouldn't be common. But it definitely needs a buff for it fill a regular tank role in it's place. increase gun penetration probably and front armour probably

IR halftrack
Can it just detect camouflaged units within the arc of it's searchlight?

that's me
I'm disappointed the USF armour line-up wasn't looked at though (although I know it would need to be coordinated with their commanders) I think there's potential to get more unit variety there. State of usf doctrinal armour

EDIT: Just seen the other feedback threads, pasting stuff into those

The Quality of Life changes are amazing, big props there!

I still worry about the Soviets place in this game, they still have lackluster infantry until T4 unless you rely heavily on Guards or Shocks. The T-70 will still likely be the glue holding the faction together, and it's been slightly weakened. I'm worried about the penetration nerfs, the big cats haven't gone away.

Speaking of, really don't feel buffing the Panther was necessary, and if it was, it should be compensated with a nerf to durability or mobility. Also the Panzerwerfer getting the best feature of the Katyusha while the Katyusha only gets a minor buff to it's 'light rain' ability feels like a bummer.

Overall I feel the Soviets will be a faction of lackluster units glued together by the T-70 and SU-85. The changes to the other 4 factions look so much better in comparison.

I'm worried about the penetration nerfs, the big cats haven't gone away.

for reference: at vet 2 on the SU85 and vet 3 on the Jackson, their current penetration is so high that they have a 100% chance to penetrate a vet 2 Panther frontally (at vet 2 it gets an armor bonus)

for reference: at vet 2 on the SU85 and vet 3 on the Jackson, their current penetration is so high that they have a 100% chance to penetrate a vet 2 Panther frontally (at vet 2 it gets an armor bonus)

The Panther in turn can penetrate them back, but also has much higher health. The Panther also has a decent chance beat a Pershing or IS-2 one-on-one. It's hard to compare the Panther to things because it's in a class of it's own as a 'Tank Hunter', essentially a low-end Heavy Tank with a Tank Destroyer gun and Medium Tank mobility. But there are also Tiger and Tiger Ace. My worry is that with German tanks, especially Panther, excelling in nearly every category there is (with survivability being unmatched due to high armor, high health, blitz, and optional smoke), the late-game is still going to be Axis Tanks vs Allied Tank Destroyers, the latter being the only thing standing between the the Germans and Victory. Were it up to me I'd probably bring Heavy Tanks and Medium Tanks closer together so that Tank Destroyers didn't have to match the power of Heavy Tanks whilst nullifying Mediums.

Allied TDs too easily counter axis heavies, the pen change is more than fair.

Best first version of any balance patch in years, well done.