Winter balance mod 2020 V1.3

The majority of modifier are Multiplicative, I suspect those are also although I did not check.

I did a few more quick tests of different abilities stacking: T4 bonus, 'Counterattack Tactics', and 'Assault and Hold'. It seems that the bonuses are applied multiplicatively. So, for example, with T4 and 'Assault and Hold', the math is:

100% (default capture rate) x 125% (T4) x 200% (AH) = 250% de/capture rate

Full testing:

T4: Increases the capture and decapture rate of all Ostheer infantry units by 25%
CA: +200% capture rate
AH: +100% (de)/Capture rate

default
decap - 10s
cap - 15s

counter-attack
decap - 10s
cap - 5s

assault and hold
decap - 5s
cap - 7.5s


t4 default
decap - 8s
cap - 12s

t4 + counter-attack
decap - 8s
cap - 4s

t4 + assault and hold
decap - 4s
cap - 6s

By far, 'Assault and Hold' has the best synergy with the new bonus.

IMO all of these changes are good, but the bonus cap speed for ostheer might need to be nerfed to 10-15% or not accesible to panzergrens, since they gain passive sprint near vechicles which might make holding territory for allies very difficult, even with an mg nearby axis inf would be able to decap or maybe even cap a point and retreat. Also, the 20 armor nerf to the jackson barely changes anything, in order to make the jackson balanced its hp should be nerfed instead, since it's supposed to be a glass cannon and axis tanks already pen it reliably.

I think another possible issue will be Mobile Defense taking over the meta against Soviets in 1v1 since the T-70 is still going to remain extremely powerful and difficult to stop unless the opponent doesn't sweep and drives into a teller mine. Puma is going to be a no brainer unit against the T-70 and with other buffs coming in for the commander (Ostruppen Reinforce Cost at Tier 4 and Target Size Reduction for Command P4) I am worried that even though the commander itself might not become overpowered, its going to become the meta and reduce variety within the game.

I think another possible issue will be Mobile Defense taking over the meta against Soviets in 1v1 since the T-70 is still going to remain extremely powerful and difficult to stop unless the opponent doesn't sweep and drives into a teller mine. Puma is going to be a no brainer unit against the T-70 and with other buffs coming in for the commander (Ostruppen Reinforce Cost at Tier 4 and Target Size Reduction for Command P4) I am worried that even though the commander itself might not become overpowered, its going to become the meta and reduce variety within the game.

Think about it this way: If a slight buff to a non-meta commander turns it into a faction crutch, what's the real issue here? The commander or the faction?

My opinion is that Mobile Defense will be niche, but usable, which is a good thing.

This T4 passive buff is too excessive

At least capture rate should be deleted

Does the mod team play only team matches and not 1vs1?

What's the issue with Support Para camo?

They lose it when models turn (like, to shoot something), so they often don't get the bonuses they're supposed to, and will randomly reveal themselves whenever they feel like it.

Also, I kind of wish they actually had one of the good camos, either that ost ambush camo infantry get or that commandos/stormtroopers get considering they're an expensive squad that isn't incredibly good as is but that's a whole separate discussion and probably not balanced.

Also, welcome to .org

This T4 passive buff is too excessive

At least capture rate should be deleted

Does the mod team play only team matches and not 1vs1?

It is simple. If ally fanboys dont want the cap speed buff, then add a 5th men to every axis squad, to increase the survability in the late game stages. Every ally squad has 5, 6 or 7 models.

The 2 main problems still are not being solved:
- 60 range TD
- Light Vehicles stage (specially T70).

The 2 main problems still are not being solved:
- 60 range TD
- Light Vehicles stage (specially T70).

So long as axis get stock tanks with nearly double the armour most of wich also get more hp and have overall higher or simaler dps and speed, the 60 td meta will not be fixed. Its not a question of if axis roll them out but when.
Its the same the other way around for axis why get regular meds when allies get 60 range td,s to shut them down and fight my heavies effevtivly as well.

Imo the t70 gets fixed when soviets get regular nades and ai upgrades. But thats never going to happen.
Up until the t70 comes out there is almost no need to worry about nades ai upgrades and instant wipes vs soviets. People should and do have enough tools to deal with a t70. Its just the anything outside of killing the t70 in the first or second engagement isent enough.

I believe that giving pioneers a 5th man after t3 would have been a better change.
It would have given them a cheap,more durable squad to cap with and would have helped their still poor repair capability, especially considering that Panthers have 50% more health to repair than TDs

I believe that giving pioneers a 5th man after t3 would have been a better change.
It would have given them a cheap,more durable squad to cap with and would have helped their still poor repair capability, especially considering that Panthers have 50% more health to repair than TDs

Getting pio to vet 3 is not easy, tho.

It is simple. If ally fanboys dont want the cap speed buff, then add a 5th men to every axis squad, to increase the survability in the late game stages. Every ally squad has 5, 6 or 7 models.

People already complained how 7men cons with vet. Now imagine 5men shrek squads and 5 men grens. OST will become hilariously OP. Allied squads have weaker survivability per model . I would a explosive damage reduction on grens at vet 2/3. Pios can get 5 men squad though, maybe aftr T4 is built and it is at vet 1?

How to fix OST:

Gren RA to 1.00
Pio RA 1.05
Pgren RA to .9

call-ins receive RA nerfs along similar lines

Damage reduction removed from veterancy

Gren far damage increased by 15%, mid by 10%, close by 5%

Battlephase 1: gren, pio, and other basic infantries receive 7.5% damage reduction
Battlephase 2: All infantries receive 5% damage reduction
Battlephase 3: All infantries receive 10% damage reduction

The reasoning: Grens really have no favorable match-ups anymore after the rifle and conscript buffs. Previously grens would have a mid-game advantage vs rifles once they had upgrades, but the increased range on rifles has all but nullified any advantage, while making early and late-game fights even more lopsided. Vs conscripts grens would tend to lose map control early game but inflict heavy bleed. Good t-70 play would equalize the manpower losses in the mid-game, and grens would win the late game fights, but are easily overpowered by doctrinal infantry, or resources have to be diverted to dealing with doctrinal tanks. With the 7man upgrade grens can inflict some minor bleed in the early game, but the t-70 and 7man upgrade makes them into a liability for the remainder of the game.

I honestly don't like the cap speed buff. It's mostly going to benefit team-games where OST doesn't really need better infantry considering the armor advantage. The 2 manpower at t4 is negligible.

Without any major improvement to grens I really don't see them being a meta choice in the next cycle, and any working strategy is going to be a battlephase rush into pgrens.

The changes I've purposed will boost gren DPS, especially at long range, giving them an easier job protecting team weapons, while also making the team weapons more important. At 1.00 RA grens will need the MG or green cover positions in the early game to prevent bleed, but will have more damage to fight off flanks. Pgrens would receive a nerf out of the gate to prevent them from steam-rolling everything, while still remaining a strong late game choice. Battlephase 4 receives a greater incentive for being purchased while also giving OST a small boost in the lategame particularly vs vehicle wipes. Since the damage reduction is tied to tech instead of vet 3 it's easier to keep fresh squads alive when all the explosions start kicking off.

How does the capture/decapture rate bonus works when combined with upgraded Assault grenadier's 1.25 cap/decap rate and stromtrooper's 1.33 decap rate? Is it an addition or multiplication?

The idea is that because Ostheer is significantly more vulnerable to late game wipes due to small squad sizes, a passive capture rate buff should help compensate their field presence a bit.

Tell me honestly, was that your idea? The best balancer of the year.

It is time to expel people from the balance team who do not play the same for all factions. He should play for all 5 fractions, and should not be a fan of Oster. Bring this idea to Andy, and let him play 2x2 next time for Allies (especially the USF, which it game problems in 2x2 mode), why did you start the 4x4 stream, because there is no balance there. All Andy's friends are axis fans. Ishtari and the Shturpanter also. They are always more likely to play for the axis. Or if they play for the allies, then they play for only one faction. And dont block my message. I dont insult anyone. Or on this forum you can’t tell your opinion? Thanks.

How does the capture/decapture rate bonus works when combined with upgraded Assault grenadier's 1.25 cap/decap rate and stromtrooper's 1.33 decap rate? Is it an addition or multiplication?

It's most likely multiplicative (all other cases seem to be), but the differences are probably too small to notice. For example:

T4 Bonus + AGren bonus = 1.5x cap/decap speed
T4 Bonus x AGren bonus = 1.5625x cap/decap speed

T4 Bonus + Sturm bonus = 1.58x decap speed
T4 Bonus x Sturm bonus = 1.6625x decap speed

Considering the default decap time is 10s, the sturm decap times end up being 6.329s (add) vs 6.015s (mult). When I tested it, my measurements were around 6.1s, so I'm fairly certain its multiplicative.

Also, I wasn't aware sturms had a decapture bonus. This opens up a really interesting combo/build using the "German Infantry Doctrine".

Sturms inside a 250HT, with Assault and Hold, and the new T4 bonus:
1.33x (Sturm Decap) x 1.25x (T4 bonus) x 2.00 (Assault and Hold) = 3.325x capture speed
10s / 3.325 cap rate = 3s to decap from a vehicle

In team games, this combined with Encirclement Doctrine's "Close the Pocket" would be incredibly powerful.

Thank you very much!

That storm + T4 + AH + 250 combo sounds very interesting indeed!

It is time to expel people from the balance team who do not play the same for all factions. He should play for all 5 fractions, and should not be a fan of Oster. Bring this idea to Andy, and let him play 2x2 next time for Allies (especially the USF, which it game problems in 2x2 mode), why did you start the 4x4 stream, because there is no balance there. All Andy's friends are axis fans. Ishtari and the Shturpanter also. They are always more likely to play for the axis. Or if they play for the allies, then they play for only one faction. And dont block my message. I dont insult anyone. Or on this forum you can’t tell your opinion? Thanks.

USF weak in 2vs2.. ok

what exactly is weak about USF ?

It would be nice to see toning down of "Mechanized Support" (guards + ISU) and "Jaeger Armor" (elephant with a scope) doctrines

Mechanized support have 'mark targer' on top of the bombing strike. So it can nuke both armor and arty.
Jaeger armor have recon on top of having spotting scopes and bombing strike, which it can use against allied arty and emplacements. You have a lot of armor? No problem I have elephant with a scope.
You have arty? No problem i have recon with bombing strike. It is kind of excessive.

Particularly these 2 doctrines are extremely toxic in team games and should not have a lot of A+ abilities in their arsenal.

TLDR: I think arty should counter long range heavies, but currently such doctrines have bombing strikes to deal with it and some of them even have recon on top of that.