I am also concerned about the asthetics and UI. So many things look like plastic, cheap figurines sold to tourists at trash shops. It starts with the people on the main cover, the soldiers on the loading screen, the soldier's heads in game when selecting a squad, many of the vehicles, sometimes also infantry models.
Literally all clickable buttons and abilities. Everything is rectangular or square with 90° angles, mostly white background and visually fully floating above the actual rest of the game.
Art style aside, I somewhat can see where this UI came from.
There are pottentually multiple reasons:
1) The fact that its DoW3 making CoH3. If you compare DoW3 UI to the skeleton we have in CoH3, its pretty simple to see a lot of similarities. The same way core idea behind vCoH was taken fron DoW1, it also shares a lot of similarities.
2) Considering who was invited to be in "closed testers" group it also makes a lot of sense why it has such state. AE himself was very vocal, in one of the first videos regarding CoH3, that he as a caster likes this new UI idea, that it gives more visability so to speak. Top players most likely said something the same along those lines, since they dont really care about UI, because they do everything via hotkeys anyway and pottentually said that vCoH\CoH2 UI unnessesry massive.
3) No-one was kinda vocal about the whole UI thing. CoH\CoH2 still has one of the best UI in RTS games if you ask me and most of the people take this for granted never actually telling that UI was almost perfect, if slightly too big. And since no-one actually praised old UI, but at the same time few complained that it is too big/old looking, relic decided that changing the whole philosophy behind it is worth doing.
What I dont understand, is why they just take CoH2 replay UI as a basis for CoH3 UI, because it contains all nessesery space and possitions for the ideas of CoH3 and it can fits perfectly this minimalistic yet stylish UI.
At least this is what I am thinking, because its still kinda strange how Relic keep telling us that they care about "old players" and we can see it in mechanics and gameplay choses, yet they slapped complete UI overhaul, noone ever asked for. |
Well as it is, CoH3 has a solid foundation at least.
Also unlike CoH2, CoH3 doesnt really try to bring anything particularly new aside from elevation and destruction systems. All it brings is pretty much an improvenets, which is good.
People shouldn't forget that CoH2 tried to change a lot of things. Be it resource points, commander system, territory capture, whole phylosophy behind factions and their economy.
CoH3 on the other hand is trying to take only working concepts and improve them if nessesery.
The only thing I'm really afaid of right now is the artstyle and UI. While even if we look at CoH2 alpha UI, core idea of UI was already in place. Same with art style.
While relic still saying that not everything is set in stone, there are few big questions about artstyle. And I am not even bitching about game beeing way too colorfull, but the fact that it has poor visability and readability. And some massive changes are requared in texture and shared department.
Imo so far it feels like CoH3 has all the chances to improve upon everything and be the best CoH mechanically, but also from the artstyle and visual perspective it might also end up the worst.
I mean, even main CoH3 image looks kinda ugly to be honest. I'm cringing from the US soldier face all the time I see it.
Maybe its the problem of the updated engine. Even DoW3 if you look at it closer, has the same problem (if you take individual static images, everything kinda blends together), but it was some what compinsated by contrast colors on the unit models and very shard and distinct animations, which wont work for realistic setting. |
Most of the balance team shittalk and conspiracies are a great example of this.
While a lot of people seem to blame balance team for the problems game has, without acknowledging the fact that with rotten foundation layed by relic its really hard to build something solid.
Balance team over-all did a good job into bringing the game into more or less balanced state, but the path to it is very subjective.
As an example, we can at the whole situation with the TDs in the game. Are the TDs right now balanced? Yes they are balanced. But they ultimatly made game less fun and spammy (at least outside 1v1). Because the aproach of TD balance was strate-forward in other words giving them insane penetration, since they needed it in order to fight heavy tanks. But in proccess of doing so, TDs become supper effective against all vehicles. The same way TDs could have had lower ROF, but increased damage making them less deadly against mediums, but better against heavy tanks. In theory at least.
Other stuff balance team had fixed was pretty much shit stains from old relic design, which were objectively bad choses. I mean, its cool that ISU\CB\2 model sniper and so on were fixed, but I'm pretty sure it took longer to get those in Relic "scope" rather then finding the solution. Still its good to have them fixed non the less. But again we dont know how much times "scope" thing was just a convenient excuse and I am pretty sure it was used in that way at least ones during CoH2 life.
But again balance team are far from being saints themselfs and they are known to ignore even resonable feedback about their ideas. The most recent example is B4\ST changes, even before fist changes were made to mentioned units, majority is good players have said that it will be broken\OP but it was ignored, just to be nerfed later. And we have plenty of such examples like VSL, penals and so on. I mean sure, its good that it took less time for balance team to accept that their idea is not working (unlike relic back in the day), but yet it still takes more then a week to fix. And it doesnt really makes players happy that they will be forced to play god knows how long with VSL\Penal\Cons blobs, ST\B4 nukes, Osttroopen LMG hordes and so on, especially considering the outcome was predictable from the beggining.
Also the whole situation with "bandaids". When there is no easy solution to address the problem balance team rather nerf this thing into the oblivion for it never to be used again or be super lackluster.
Personally my own and single complain, is that balance team are kinda lacked "creative approach" and "out of the box" thinking about some problem solving. But again, we dont know what relic allowed to change or to add to the game, but at least for some problems which relic allowed balance team to adress much better solutions could have been found. Some of the units\abilities after such changes became merely "side options" being marginally better in something so specific that they are not even woth picking if they are not part of the meta. |
CoH2 really suffered from the concept of either "premium" or "because of". Most of the problems in the game can be categorised as one or another.
Soviet and Wehr at least had the same tools, but assymetrical. Both of the factions actually are quite good, the execution of balance at launch was terrible, but the foundation of the factions were very solid. I'd say game was actually very enjoyable right before WFA launch, it was more or less balanced in some perverted CoH way, but yet balanced.
Then WFA hit the fan, with the concept of "we strip tool X from the faction and buff Y in return" and when people ask, we will point them to the fact that USF\OKW dont have sniper, for example. And CoH2 went even deeper into shithole and never recovered fully.
OKW was released overpowered because of this in teamgames.
USF was released overpowered in smaller games because of this.
As for UKF, I still belive till this day that they were a cashgrab + cheap way to bring new players into the game.
Because, no-one even with 1 brainsell would have created this overpowered abomination which they were on release. Its just immpossible. It seemed like UKF was ripped strate from cheatmode comp-stomper wet dream. And fun fact it, it was just as bad in Alpha and people said it was this bad, but Relic didnt care.
And while I agree that balance team did questinable dissitions (mostly when it came to introducing or "re-thinking" stuff), considering what they had to deal with overall generalization was really the only option to keep the game somewhat alive.
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Speak for yourself. I am a casual player, and from my perspective it's a good mechanic because it's fun and doesn't happen often enough so that it's a big issue, but happens rarely enough so that when it does happen it's kind of an exciting moment.
Well and as I was saying aside from "wow fun and exciting" factor it brings absolutely nothing into the game, but frustration when it happens in actuall semi-competitive game.
Just look from a progmatic perspective:
What cons/pros does it have for a fun factor
What cons/pros does it have for a competitive factor (not e-sport one, just regular automatch MP)
As far as I see, its cons outweights the pros, sure it happens rarely but when it happens you either dont care about it, or it shift the game in one RNG roll. |
I'd agree, but unfortunately I doubt it. At least in CoH1 the bergtiger could only repair axis wrecks, whereas the USF recovery vehicle seems like it'll be able to repair /all/ vehicles.
What really scares me, is that Wehr will also have such vehicle (since it was in the files) and even considering you are paying some amount of res. to repair destoyed wreck its still insane BS. It was added probably because a lot of comp stompers cryed on the forum that they want at least somesort of abandonment iteration back in the game. But I still hope, they at least restrict it to your own tanks. Otherwise all wrecks would requare destroying instantly.
The medic system from CoH1 had its own severe problems... "Zombie Squads" were absolutely retarded. CoH3's medic system seems much improved over 1s, with "saved" units providing small MP discounts rather than producing free squads. It also seems like both USF and Wehr have these medics... I thought it was just going to be an USF thing in 3? (I'm not complaining about this)
Actually Wehr still have zombie grens with defensive field marshal. But its significatnly harder, to get them then in CoH1 anyway. |
Speaking of zoom and scaling, I belive its actually very simular to the one in CoH1. CoH2 compared to CoH1 have a very zoomed in camera, which is probably was made due to the crappy CoH2 optimisation, because "out-of-bounds" area in CoH2 (essentually when things stoped from rendering) is also much smaller in CoH2.
Also, as I was saying in different topic, Twin Beaches had very distinct elevation across the map, with right and the left side of the map having much lower elevation level. I was posting a screenshot for comparison sake. Essentually unit on the beach side was like x1.5 smaller then the unit in a base sector, with max zoomed-out camera.
I was playing mostly 2v2 during alpha, and 2v2 maps didnt have this problem in most cases. Especially on maps like Farmlands which has very little elevation, max zoom feelt alright. |
But you see, Gachi; Bad features are apparently what make CoH... "CoH", and removing bad features or improving other features is "Streamlining" the game, and somehow making it the same as Starcraft (???).
The game is perfect and nothing should ever change and if you think differently you are some sort of "Esportser".
I honestly think its the way which balance team chose to fix those features what trigger people. While things like abandonment in its core is a bad feature (and I really hope they will scrap this recovery vehicle shit from CoH3 because its x2 worst then abandonment), some of them had its rights to be in the game, but the lack of any compinsation mechanics pretty much forced to be remade into what we have now.
For instance, in vCoH all explosion\inderect fire units were much more deadly, just like in CoH2 at launch, but vCoH also had medics which allowed you to at least somehow not fall completely behind if you got few units wiped.
CoH2 on the other hand, didnt have any of those and the easiest solution to fix them - either nerf or remove them.
But I also dont understand this claim that coh2 was made into starcraft, since the only thing which was changed is the random 1 hit wipes from mines\inderect fire. I dont see how this makes the game starcraft. Maybe if every faction had their version of pre-nerfed ST coh would have still be coh.
I agree with everything you said and a possible solution could be ranked and unranked 1v1 since it is creates the largest swing in this mode. Leave the extreme RNG mechanics in the larger modes to keep the flavor and wild memes going.
Actually questinable solution. Team Fortress 2 tried different balance from ranked and un-ranked games. Baning weapons and removing mechanics like random crits in competitive and, as far as I know, not many players like this solution.
I just belive, that when creating a mechanics developers need to think with their heads and not asses when creating features. Because "meme" features are nice, when they are happening to your enemy and not you. There are plenty of ways to create meme possabilities with different abilities and strats, but all of them should requare player involvement, like "close the pocket" for instance. |
I don't get it. Vehicle abandonment is a good mechanic in COH2. What's wrong with it. Definitely adds another layer, especially to 1v1s
No its not, not in a single way its a good mechanic. Not from pro-players perspective, not from the casual perspective. Abandonment is an example of pure, non-player dependant RNG.
Abandonment either gives one player a second chance when he player wrong or it punishes the player when he player right. Not speaking about situations when abandonment happens in the middle of the map, so it just as good as dead anyway.
But for instance I had games, where I miss player and let enemy dive my rocket arty, instead of being destoyed it got abandoned. Or when I dived to finish the enemy and in process my tank got abandoned.
Not even talking about the frustration aspect, but from a pure army value perspective. Because any tank is a huge boost to your army value and quite big res investment and the fact that one player can essentially get such unit for free based on RNG is just a bad mechanic.
CoH2 is full of RNG, but most of the RNG is predictable. Sure BS sometimes happens, like PIVJ being able to either deflect all shots or being penetrated all the times, but its predictable RNG.
Abandonment on the other hand is like downed plane killing your whole army, because RNG event decided that you need to lose the game, just because. Without your involvement and without any possible counter-play, because its either happens or its not.
Aside from "Wow, lol, cool haha" factor, abandonment has absolutely 0 possitive value. |
Actually I disagree that the balance is something what could be done only by professionals, it imo even can be done by the amatures IF they have proper game vision and they are not biased.
On the other hand community balance team not only made patches, but they shaped the game into something different, thats why probabaly a lof of people dont like them.
Because the core concepts of the game were changed by balance team, not only unit stats\costs. |