Thread: FRP12 Feb 2022, 16:15 PM
brother, the WFA can be punished extremely hard with indirect artillery. OKW headquarters cant be moved, and if moved too close, certain allied players will keep track of their blobs retreating, and then decimate the said reinforcement point once there are forces there.
bad USF players can put their major retreat point close to the frontline, so they can blob asap. This strategy falls apart once axis get rocket artillery, they will throw recon and will decimate the whole army. If retreat point is further, then LEFHs will hit instead.
UKF players often have the safest allied reinforcement placements, but LEFH 18s can target them once spotted, and UKF players often have to build another point somewhere else, wasting MP
Even if you look at maps like Red\White ball, there are places where you can put your retreat points, which wont be even in range of rocket arty, unless in dive. LeFH\ML-20 can bombard them thats true, but the same way on somemaps ML-20\LeFH can easily bombard the base sector anyway.
Its not the point that you sometimes, on some maps, in certain situations, wipe out the whole OKW\USF\UKF blob with inderect fire. I'il even say that, unless you use Howis, more ofter then not, in order to make good rocket barrage on retreat point you already have to beat the enemy in some way.
Not to mention that if you have easy access to barrages on FRP, its the enemy placing it wrong in a first place.
What I was talking about is the FRP mechanic in its core, and what it brings into the game and how it affects the gameplay. I've yet to see at least one redeeming quality and why they are good for the game. |
Thread: FRP12 Feb 2022, 06:20 AM
So to sum up, FRPs are fine and well adjusted and contribute another layer to the strategy in the Real Time Strategy game
Are you speaking about forward reinforcement or forward retreat points?
Forward reinforcement, has no harm in itself and its a fine mechanic.
Forward retreat points, on the other hand brings only harm and actually removed a lot of strategy layers from the game.
Hell just look how Ostheer\Sov and WFA factions have to play. In teamgames ofcouse, since in 1v1\2v2 FRPs arent used, which is actually funny for the game balanced around 1v1. I still dont understand why FRPs which arent affecting 1v1\2v2 but fucking up 3v3\4v4 never were nerfed to the ground or completly removed.
As Ostheer you can have reinf\med bunker yes but you also cant retreat, you have to use soft retreats, meaning that you have to micro and play with your units just as if there was no reinf point. If you mass retreat chances that you lose your bunker are super high, because its easy to kill. Depending on the faction you play against, you have to cover your flanks because again bunker is very vunerable.
As Soviets you can use M5, which usually have to be either exposed to reinforce during the fight or you again have to use soft retreats and micro your units.
And finally look at how WFA works. You litteraly can place your FRP in somewhat safe place which wont be in reach of inderect fire units placed near frontline, but still relatively close to the main action. And thats it, you dont have to think about anything. Where ost\sov will be punished by bad retreat choses, WFA factions arent punished what so ever.
Whole idea of "forcing enemy to retreat" as a general tactical win, is completly thrown out of the window, just because you dont really care if OKW\UKF\USF are retreated because you know they will be back in a blink of the eye.
There is imo not a single redeeming factor for FRP as it stands, besides maybe it make game more action packed, but its more action packed in a garbage way, because it forgives not only a bad play, but actually promotes the way of playing which CoH arent really about. |
Thread: FRP12 Feb 2022, 00:27 AM
If FRP were to be removed in a CoH game then you need to scrap all large maps, nobody wants to play a match where you need to spend 5 minutes for retreating to your base & walking back to the front every time. Maps like General Mud, Vielsalm, Vaux Farmlands and Steppes are 0 fun without FRP and every sane person would veto them
vCoH vibes with even larger maps.
Imo you are wrong. The fact that FRP even exist for 3 out of 5 factions, just removes the punishing mechanic for mentioned factions for bad play and blobing. UKF\OKF\USF blob AF in teamgames only because they can afford to, since they will spend much less time to get back into the action in case they are suppressed and being artyed.
Forcing ost\sov to retreat means you can win considerable amount of time by doing so, forcing WFA factions on the other hand hardly means anything because they still will be back much sooner. Thats why (especially in teamgames) you can somewhat win against EFA factions just by coasing a lot of retreats, while against WFA its all about wiping squads if you want to actually coase significat losses.
And while FRP are reinforcing at lower speed, you still will be spending this additional time to heal up your squads, since UKF\USF\OKW have access to forward healing so slower reinforcement hardly means anything.
FRP was cancer in vCoH for British, and it become even bigger cancer in CoH2. The only good feature of them is that they allow you to end the game in one good arty salvo against braindead flower who likes to blob and mass retreat.
What should be done in CoH3 - all factions should have access to forward reinforcement tool, so you can play properly, soft retreat, reinforce and come back into the action, if you failed be punished by long retreats. But this brainless "Press R and come back 10 seconds later", definitly should go away. |
Imo the main problem with ELO and stuff is that its some what permament or degrading.
For instance, your first 10 games when you are unranked are impermeable because they pretty much decide the level of suffering. You either can have proper games and then you will be able to matched against more or less equal opponents or you might get shit games with players dropping either on your or enemy side resulting in your rank being sabotaged.
My UKF 4v4 was destroyed this way. When I got multiple droppers and unwinnable games in my first 10 games, resulting in me not even bothering picking 4v4 UKF, simply because for every 1 game I can win, I will lose 5.
Aswell as, unless its 1v1 its really hard for new players to climb the ladder even if they are improve, because you more of often then not put in unwinnable games.
Whole ELO problem is actually should be managed by seasons. So if I am new player and I suck, but then I've improved, I shouldn't be forced to start climbing from 1000+ ranks.
Also people who abused sertain patch and were put on the very high possitions, shouldnt keep them because its resulting in a shit MM and doesnt reflect their skill. Or the people who just bruteforce their rank, having 3k games and 50-50 w\r or less, but also having middle ground rank for some reason, resulting them being paired with legitimate middle ground players..
This is pretty much the seasons come into play, pretty much reseting player stats every season and keeping history of previous seasons. Not to mention, it might make MM less toxic, because some people are frustrated because rank\stats are permanent, without any way to reset it.
And not to mention that, even if we will be super optimistic, CoH3 most likely wont have huge player base to cover the whole MM system properly. My bet that at very best CoH3 will have like 10-15k stable player base, spread across 4 pvp and 4 pve gamemodes. And unless Relic make ranks ultimately less important in a long run, we will have garbage MM again. |
So players become instantly trash when they select USF because the faction isn't forgiving.
Well when I am against double OKW on either red\white ball express paired with USF as soviet, and USF dont have brain capacity to understand that I need ambu to reinforce my maxim spam, they are trash in my book.
If soviet\Ost and OKW (to a lesser extend) arent giving the single shit about teammates, they are still can be somewhat usefull by just being somewhere near. If USF\UKF are playing in this manner, you might aswell insta drop the game. I dont really understand what you dont like about what I'm saying. This is pretty much the sole reason, why random Allies are harder to play in 3v3\4v4, then random axis. |
"but people should really stop pretending like USF is the worst faction on life support"
followed by
"one particullar cheese strategy is the only thing making them playble"
I missed "and". What I meant is, some people in this thread and in general tend to defend airborn\scotts cheesing as the only one viable strategy without which USF has no chance of winning what so ever.
And I don't play 1v1s but I do know that axis are not hard nor harder to play than allies. I consider soviets and OST to be the "easiest" factions to play in 1v1, but USF/UKF/OKW are not harder, just different, in a sense that they lack something either early, or later on.
Stats says otherwise, even common logic says otherwise due to how factions are designed. But what ever.
Having said that, I seldom play paths/scott as it's unwise in 3v3s. You have no mines and you'll get swarmed by panthers sooner or later.
Whole idea of this meta is that you are able to maintain such pressure from the beggining, that Axis just wont survive untill panthers. If there are panters running around, then USF player failed to maintain snowballing. Pathfinder/scott meta wont win you 50+ mins games, but it has the capacity of pretty much ending the game in less then 20 mins and maintain insane pressure just untill super late game. There are no legions of panthers by that time.
I don't even consider the scott/paths to be that strong, in any game mode. People just don't want to get out of the usual build orders and playstyle to counter it.
Sure thing. Except it all comes to outplaying USF and teammates in early game, because the only real counter is to drag the game as long as possible in order to get Elephant\JT, because funnly enouth the most generic and usual build order is the only effective one. |
If you take out from the roster/nerf to the ground Airborne, the winrate across all teamgames will drop for USF. Pretty sure about that.
No wonder, because almost every single USF player abuse it. I wont even comment on the fact if USF actually need it or not in oder to win, but people should really stop pretending like USF is the worst faction on life support, one particullar cheese strategy is the only thing making them playble. Even stats (which for some reason conveniently arent poping out every day, like they used to, in context of showing how trash allies are) shows that.
Aaah the ultimate argument, players are suckers that's why they keep losing with USF, but not with Ostheer, soviet or OKW.
Because Ostheer\Soviets\OKW are more forgiving when it comes to random teamgames?
OST hard in 1v1? What drugs are you on? You have a couple of different builds, all work wonders. Generally you play around the MG42, and given the massive arc, you won't spend a lot of time repositioning it. OKW is "harder" to play in 1v1 because you have to make a choice in teching, but other than that, they are completely fine. Never seen an OKW player that struggled against any allied faction in 1v1. They dominate USF the most, soviets the least.
Dude you dont even play 1v1 semi-competitively. And I didnt say "HARD", I said HARDER. I'm not speaking about tournament games, nor do I speak about 10000+ rank games. I speak about middle groud player base. |
If there is no factions weaker then the mentioned faction in particular game mode, then it is the weakest by the definition.
Weak because of what? 4 USF in 4v4 is for sure much weaker then say 4 soviets in 4v4, but it doesnt mean that USF is weak = trash.
Problem with the USF is that in 4v4 rifles gimmics arent working due to narrow maps and MGs coverything almost everything, but it doesnt mean that USF is the weakest. I would still say that as far as allies go UKF is the weakest in 4v4, untill maybe mid game.
But its not a secret that its generally harder to play as random allies in 4v4 because most of the players are retards, the same way its generally harder to play as axis in 1v1. So this backbone aurgement "USF is weak in 4v4" is ultimatly flawed. They might be on a weaker side options wise, but in a context of "weak teammate faction" they are not even close to being weak in 4v4. I would be glad to play with non-retarded USF as a teammate in 4v4 over UKF anyday.
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poor people being biased to the possibly worst faction to play in the game right now
they really should know better
Well more like, poor people selecting USF, going into random 3v3/4v4 and then ranting that it is the worst faction. |
Thread litteraly died, still there is USF fanclub mob ranting, even considering nothing is happening to the pathfinders and scott |