Thanks for agreeing. Yes, T34 used to have good AI efficacy.
Thanks for apologizing, ypu where one of the guys that caused this.
But guys likenypu whining about AT and Ram changed that to its current state as basically a cheap PIV mirror with obviously less AT effect, equal AI (unless PIV upgraded at justified cost), an obsolete Ram, and all that now justified by anlower price.
T34 was alright beforel but Sov whiners insisted on more AT, which at cost, obviously resulted in equal AI, and lessAT than PIV, with the Ram as a free element.
Did you really expect a T34 that is better AI, functional Ram, and equal or better AT than PIV, for less cost?
Cmon, thats just insane and unreasonable. You didnt actually expect that... or?
Be careful what you whine for, cos you just might get it.
Man, talk about misblaming stuff.
Relic does its own thing. I'm certain they listen to their own balance testers first, high-ranking players second, stats gurus third, and people posting in the various latrines balance forums a very distant fourth. The fact that many, if not most changes in the latest patch are things I've barely seen anyone cry about in balance threads supports this.
Your logic, then, simply doesn't work. Everyone hated the T-34 ram machine, Soviets because it meant they had no proper tank, Axis because it disabled Tigers in one click. Relic started progressively buffing it, and removed Ram's effectiveness as a result. I'm personally all for that change since ram was stupid to begin with.
T-34 was perfectly fine pre-patch, it lost to P4 in the vast majority of situations and had lesser AI, but since it's cheaper and usually shoots at 4 or 5 men squads that's not an issue. It underperforms compared to call-ins if you count teching costs but that's a far larger problem. The ''bug fix'' was just uncalled for, and turned a fine unit into an underpowered one. And since I didn't see a single post asking for a change to the T-34's fire rate pre-patch, you blaming it on the Evil Soviet Fanboys is pretty stupid. |
I'd rather have a Jumbo. They were deployed in the war, and fit the meatshield design US needs more than the Pershing.
I just want my US Heavy Armor camo option to be useful at last. Every time I mouse over it and see an empty space I go . |
The BAR is not awful at all, but the fact that you need to fork over fuel to unlock it (strike 1), go back to base to get it (strike 2), and grab two to make a real difference (120 ammo, strike 3, out) makes it underperform. Compared to the LMG42, which is 60 ammo, no need to be specifically unlocked and offers a bigger improvement at its intended range? And let's not even get into OKW elite infantry which sometimes rivals or beats even double BAR rifles right out of the gate.
Rifles are good, don't get me wrong. But having to spend 300/45 (for grenades and BARS) and then 60/120 ammo per squad (or 140 in case of 1919s) to give them decent scaling seems a bit much. Especially compared to stuff like Obers which require none of those investments and can easily still beat upgraded rifles. |
Ahh I might mixed that up with the fact that reversing is as fast as driving forward.
Yet still doesn't that heavily break immersion, when a car is unable to hit the R gear?
You're talking about a game where tank combat happens at 50 meters and snipers can turn around, go prone and land a headshot in 2 seconds without fail.
Personally, the no reverse thing seems a bit much. It means it's pretty much always boned if compromised, especially with this game's pathing. I'm up for a fuel cost and an acceleration OR sight range decrease. |
The Panther was a direct competitive reaction to the T-34 series. The German designers intended for it to achieve combat superiority on the eastern front. It was also somewhat unsuccessful as a tank while the t-34, when married to Soviet doctrine and resource configuration, was wildly successful. It's not just the tank, but the military system that surrounds it. (production cost/speed, training/organization, deployment, repair & maintenance, combat readiness/field presence....)
Yeah, the whole ''My tank beats yours!!'' rhetoric often ignores that tanks are just one part of a combined arsenal. No matter how cool your tanks are and how good they are at blowing up other tanks, if they cannot properly support the rest of your force, suffer frequent mechanical breakdown and cost more to produce than what they destroy on average, it doesn't matter much. |
I was speaking generally, not about you, but about all whiners that since okw appeared they only claimed "this unit op, that unit op" without considering at all at this faction's architecture and why units are the way they are. And the result was far from balancing things. Actualy, okw was more balanced at the begginig as it is now. Well, I'm speaking in the wind,anyway.
It's not like some Axis players consider basically every Soviet has save Penals and Conscripts abuse, right? Bricks, glass houses and all that.
Besides, I'm pretty sure Relic are big boys and you can't blame their balance decisions on forum fanboys.
As for Falls, my only misgiving is that they come with a good weapon right out of the gate. Storms are a better example, they spawn behind lines with Kars, and get their good weapon after an upgrade so they're much less of an alpha strike squad. Falls however can spawn behind an MG or AT gun and decrew it almost instantly.
Still, of all the OKW's bevy of elite infantry, they're probably the least powerful. |
100 ammo is a lot, however, much more value than 70 manpower, and Storms are doctrinal. Plus, Storms have two upgrade paths so its not like MP44s are the only possible option.
You also forget they have cloak in cover. This does make them very good at using both their shrecks and their MP44s. |
I don't think you can call OKW's early game weak anymore. They have the two strongest early game units right off the bat with no tech or fuel cost, an AT gun to deal with any early armor. Only the volks are meh, but they are more then capable of supporting the other units I mentioned well.
In fact I would say they have the best early game out of all the factions.
Yeah, weak early game was true when both Volks and Kubel were so-so, but now their early game is very solid indeed, Sturms are still very good, Volks become good as soon as truck is set up and Kubel is amazing.
None of which changes the fact that AssEngies wer overpowered. Personally I'd have liked to give them some scaling by having the flamethrowere give them armor or received accuracy, at the cost of more munitions than 60 of course. As it is, they die very fast after early game. Albeit the demo is indeed good. |
How do you suggest countering them in a close quarters environment with lots of shotblockers as US? w/o using vehicles
Grenades.
Rifle Company flamethrower.
AssEngies mixed with rifles.
Thompson paras.
Off the top of my head. I know Thompson paras shit all over them, but of course that means going airborne. Grenades are good, but good players will often dodge them. Still, I find it harder to counter them as Soviets if I don't have Shocks. |
If 3v3 and 4v4 are in the game in a ranked capacity, then they deserve to be properly balanced instead of just being ignored.
If Relic's plan is to ignore 3v3 and 4v4 then 3v3 and 4v4 should be banished into the custom match sewers and begone from ranked.
That's of course the inferior option. The better option is to actually balance the game on all levels of play. Those who say this is an impossible goal do nothing to further the game and make it enjoyable for a wider audience.
I'm actually of the mindset that most of the "imba" stuff we see in 3v3 and 4v4 is actually imba in a 1v1 and 2v2 setting. It's just that when the imba stuff proliferates, it becomes far more obviously imbalanced. So while KT might be "kinda" imba in 1v1, when we see 4 players with 4KTs, the problem gets a magnifying glass put over it.
Same if pre-patch 100 range ISU 152 was imbalanced. In 1v1 it's only a bit imbalanced. In 4v4 it's very imbalanced, but the fact that it's imbalanced in the first place doesn't change.
Same thing with stuka strafing runs. "Kinda" imba in 2v2, but super imba when they can be called in non-stop in 4v4.
But nobody will say "zomg Conscripts are imba in 4v4" because Conscripts are not imba in 1v1. Same for SU-76. The units that are fundamentally imbalanced can be produced en masse in a 4v4, to make the opponent's life more miserable several fold.
The thing is, KT is not really unbalanced in 1v1 because you need a crapload of fuel to access it, and your opponent can easily cut off your supply. Unless you really outmatch your opponent by a large margin, you will need to build vehicles, each of which delays the KY by that much more fuel. Same for the ISU to a lesser extent, albeit that one is more map-dependant than anything else (you probably won't get it on Langreskaya, Semois is another matter). Point is, there is a consequence to getting heavies in 1v1, it's harder to maintain map control and your opponent won't let you rest easy if he's decent. If you're at 100 fuel towards a KT and your opponent's 2 T-34s drive you off the map and take all the fuel, you're in a very bad position.
So overall, these units are fine in 1v1. What changes in team games is that one player can focus on teching while the other(s) hold the enemy back. Build caches, get mostly support teams to provide backup, and save fuel for the big heavies while the others get the mid-game tanks. Doing that in 1v1 will get you crushed before you can secure the needed fuel. But in team games, you have backup that can save your ass.
Mind you, this is the same in Starcraft; the (say) Battlecruiser is a meh unit at best in 1v1 because it's too expensive, in teams games a player that focuses on them can create a victory fleet if properly supported. And this is the most balanced RTS in history. Balancing units in 1v1 by cost inevitably means that in team games, which are much more forgiving ressource wise, the unit's balance will change. You can't really cure that, unless you start adjusting all unit prices per gamemode, in which case you probably open a gigantic can of balancing worms what you will never be able to close.
A possible solution would be a flat ressource rate reduction in team games, I guess. But that's still a lot of playtesting to find the right percentage, and it's still pretty damn arbitrary. |