The reason why Kubels and Pumas are so strong is because the intended coutner, Bazookas are so god damn awful. They're unable to consistently hit small fast vehicles, and unable to penetrate big tanks.
The problem with the US Teching system is T2 literally has no AT whatsoever, No Bazookas, no AT guns, No Stuart. Whilst T3 has everything; Bazookas, AT Guns and Stuart. Not that they're particularly effective, due to Bazookas drastic underperformance, and AT guns being too immobile against the Puma, let alone with smoke.
But it really should be mixed up because of how much overlap. I think Moving the Lieutenant Squad to T3 instead of the Captain Squad to T2 would definitely help things out. Going US T2 can be a huge gamble if the OKW pulls out a T3 and then there's literally no counter to Puma or Flak Half Track until fast Sherman rush.
The other really huge problem with the meta is that US's lack of dependable AT is made so much worse because of the lack of mines. If Rear Echelon could build mines like every other faction then countering both light vehicles early and heavy tanks later would be much more fair and balanced.
Great post, I agree. US AT is in a terrible spot right now until they get Jacksons, and even then it's still probably the worse among all factions save for Soviets without doctrinal heavies. In particular, having all AT in one tier and AI in the other just seems like a poor decision, especially when contrasted with OKW who can get everything they need out of one building, even moreso if they go T3.
Relic seems to actually think zookas are fine, since they were nerfed in the last big patch. I have no idea how they possibly came to that conclusion. The damn thing sucks. So long as the tank is a P4 or bigger, it has basically nothing to fear from zooks thanks to their awful penetration. If it's smaller, then their abysmal accuracy probably means that they will miss anyway. I once used a flame HT, drove it right into a Captain, who missed one of their shots and had to get out of dodge. That was just embarassing.
@TNrg; uh, Luchs in anything but T4 would be horribly broken. It means that OKW only needs to gather 50 fuel (they already have 40 for tier) before basically getting a T-70 out. The damn thing would wipe out the map almost immediately.
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I believe it is because they are horrible without schrecks, they kind of need them to get vet fast.
Meh, they still get a good grenade, and their DPS is not much lower than conscript's while they are vastly more durable. Shrecks also allow them to vet very easily, while vet 3 conscripts are a rarity unless they got PPShs.
Plus, it's not like OKW lacks for powerful non-doctrinal infantry. Soviets only have Penals, and they need to forgo Maxims and AT guns to get em. |
Have you ever considered that you are just a bad player. what works against the maxim works against the kubel play defensively and stay in buildings till the m20 arrives.
Aside from the fact that buildings are 1) extremely map-dependant, 2) a delaying tactic that makes you lose map control and 3) still clearable by grenades/Sturmpios (all for a unit that costs 240 mp), you have no business whatsoever questionning anyone's skill unless you show your own playercard. |
Pak40 is balanced verse SOV.
Pak40 is unbalanced verse USF for the reasons including:
- It kills a Stuart tank in 2 shots and forces the Stuart to be used extremely cautiously otherwise you lose a major fuel investment. It is incredibly easy to kill the Stuart on the majority of 1v1 maps as Ostheer if you listen in the fog of war and have a sense of timing. If the Stuart is within a certain position of the Pak40, even at full health it will die unless the pak40 misses (rare).
- USF can only win the infantry MP war currently through good vehicle play due to weakness of Rifles transitioning in the mid/late game. The pak40 can completely shut this down on the majority of 1v1 maps and you end up losing both the infantry and armour wars as USF purely from LMG grens/pak40 and maybe one P4.
My balance suggestion would not be to nerf the pak40 at all but buff other USF units to compensate as otherwise you will effect the Soviet match up. Suggested changes include:
- Buff Stuart health so that it can withstand 2 Pak40 shots. 2 Pak40 shots + panzerfaust should result in a kill though.
- Buff BAR upgrades so LMG grens can actually be countered without armour or burning through munitions on smoke/pineapple grenades at every single engagement.
At the moment I believe OST is incredibly easy to play verse USF once you handle the early AAHT/M20 from them on the majority of maps. LMG gren, pak40 and P4 is all you need. The suggested changes will also permit USF to actually use T3 verse OST opposed to having to go T2 every single game! I am sick and tired of the USF meta where only 1 stratergy is viable on the majority of maps. Boring.
I approve of this. Often, a simple LMG grens + MG42 + PaK composition can completely neuter US apart from a handful of units, most of them doctrinal (Priest, dozer sherman, pack howie if you get lucky). US in general sucks at beaking through a determined defense, the latter being something Ostheer excels at. ''But flank'', folks say. Would be a good idea if almost all of the USF's units weren't so fragile, so while a good flank can go a long way towards victory, one that goes poorly can turn into a general rout and cost you a few units very, very fast. Plus, late game, there are so many units skipping around doing a flank unseen is 1) very map-dependant and 2) hard to pull off even if you can. The fact that good Ostheer players will plant Tellers everywhere they can doesn't help either. And one misclick on anything but a dozer sherman will result in your tanks being blown to pieces bu the PaK wall.
It's time Relic abandons the ''fragile vehicles'' BS and give US something other than papier mache on wheels. Up their cost a bit if need be, but the Stuart, Sherman and Jackson need more durability. |
What OKW early game unit is he referring to?
Seriously I have real trouble clearing garrisoned buildings as OKW, especially soviet HMG garrisons.
Any tips would be much appreciated.
Sturmpios, actually, thanks to their high DPS they don't need a grenade or ability to seriously fuck up anything inside of a building if they get up close. If it's an HMG, even easier, just circle around the building at regular intervals, they won,t be able to fire at you.
Albeit Volks grenades and, if you wanna take the risk, Stukas also work. |
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Flanking with Jacksons is a terrible idea anyway. They are way too fragile and one mistake = burning wreck. They also have no getaway ability of any kind, unless you want to count Sherman smoke for some reason. They are much inferior to Panthers for this, or even T-34/85s who have least have some durability to help them.
This wouldn't be that big of an issue if zookas were useful in flanks, as a synergy. But their penetration and accuracy is so piss poor you pretty much have to park your infantry on the ass of a heavy tank for them to have any sort of effectiveness. This simply doesn't work in a normal game. |
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Toss-up between Volks and Grens. Grens get the juicy LMG42, good baseline stats, and nade/faust free. Volks get the shreck, insane veterancy, and great durability.
In the end, voted grens because I find Volks a bit too good. My fantasy faction is powerful but balanced, dammit!
Riflemen are kinda distant runner-ups, thanks to their higher cost and pretty poor scalability unless you get a doctrine and/or fuel costing upgrades for them.
Conscripts aren't even on the radar. |
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Shrecks on Volks is a really bad decision. Not only are they the cheapest base infantry in the game, their veterancy is crazy good, and shrecks mean they will easily get vet 5 which makes them damn near invincible to small arms fire. The double shrecks on PGrens actually makes it a real choice; you need to specialize your close-range infantry into AT goons; since Volks only get 1 shreck, don't do that much rifle damage anyway and get a lot of their AI DPS from grenades, it's just a straight upgrade for them.
I don't feel that OKW is forced to blob. It's just too effective. The Puma and AAHT are both very powerful, potent units, as is the Jagdpanzer; it's just that they require more micro than a-moving the shreck + (insert elite infantry here) blob for not much better results in many cases. Because OKW infantry is just that damn good even without the insane vet they get.
US is not forced to blob either (indeed in my experiences pulling off flanks is the best way to use them), but they are forced to build at least 3 rifles at start, will get at least 2 officier units, plus the RE squad. So that's a mandatory 6 infantry units per game, not counting an extra rifle, a third officier, or doctrinal infantry like airborne, pathfinders or AssEngies. So they need to have a big infantry army by design, and that really doesn't help their massive upkeep. |
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Jackson needs increased accuracy. Missing ordinarily is bad enough, with the Jackson every shot you fire makes it very vulnerable. They should count.
I also dislike the design that US AT needs to use AP rounds to get great penetration. That's not a problem for any other faction's anti-tank, why should US have to use up muni to get other faction's penetration when their AT is already so fragile?
To say nothing of bazookas being useless. As US, I always feel like if I don't enter the late-game with a big advantage, I will end up losing because my stuff just cannot compete unless the other player is really bad and just wades his panzers into a killzone.
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You must be really bad at micro then. If you look to your bottom-right panel in game, you'll notice an array of commands from stop to CREW SHOCK. Use this in conjunction with anything else you have in the area, flank with stuart and destroy 
You do realize being a condescending arse won't make your points any stronger, far from it?
And you do also realize that even with the crew shock ability, the Puma outranges the Stuart?
That the Puma also has a useful turret lock ability, as well as smoke if it gets in trouble?
And that the Puma will also have support, and it so happens OKW had durable basic infantry with shrecks?
No one in their right mind thinks Stuart is a viable Puma counter unless you vastly outskill your opponent. And relying on M20 mine is a huge gamble; a good OKW player will have sweepers when he sees your M20 and won't risk his puma needlessly. Mines have always been deterrents and noob bashing machines, they have never been counters to anything due to their nature. And if your gamble doesn't work, you have literally nothing that can hurt the Puma until you either tech to captain (an economic loss) or get a Sherman/Jackson which come much later.
Also, doubting the skill of people who respond to you when one of these persons is top 10 OKW kinda makes you look bad. Just sayin'. |
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