It's stupid as fuck to play against, but here's some tips;
-222 is your friend. Guards can't be on the entire map at once, and if you manage to drive them off the snipers are wide open.
-By its nature this strategy is compact, cap around him. It's harder to do in 2v2 but at worst go help your teamate a bit and flank the Soviet player.
-Mortar HT basically cannot be countered until he builds a T70/T-34, and by that time you should at least have a PaK. Even if you don't use incendiary barrage, it can still force those snipers to be cautious. Don,t get both a MHT and a 222 however, choose one.
-Tech to T3 and get a P4 ASAP. Not, not an Ostwind, you need P4 to deal with the vehicle follow up your opponent will use and anyway Ostwind is barely better than P4 vs infantry now.
-Use grens, and avoid open spaces. if you use riflenades, try to anticipate where the sniper will go next, rather than its current position. A well-placed riflenade can insta wipe a sniper. |
A nerf against buildings? How does that even make any sense? Squads correctly standing in cover makes them weaker to buildings I don't even know what that means. Your parenthetical even directly contradicts that statement.
The system nerfs buildings, is what I meant. I didn't phrase that correctly, true.
And yeah, Riflenades were already good, now they are killers. People now hug cover more and they squads are more clumped up = juicy targets indeed. Especially vs US, I increasingly stop getting LMGs ASAP and conserve ammo for riflegrenades. |
It's a buff against small arms, a nerf against buildings (grens in green cover now beat rifles in a building handily) and a buff to grenades, mostly. |
Ugh, I was hoping they wouldn't revert that nerf, or at least add in another sort of nerf if they did.
We're back to the stale meta again. Dammit. |
i hate obers more than snipers. atleast i can flak some snipers, get a lucky mortar or something.
with obers at vet3+. ive had shocks sit right on top of them and notice almost no damage being done to them.
This issues is huge. once they come out. infantry combat is no longer a viable option
Yeah, I think that's the crux of what makes this unit badly designed. Once your enemy has 2+ Obers, unless you have vetted Shocks or vetted LMG Paras (both doctrinal), your infantry is now basically worthless against his infantry. Anything other than the cream of Allied elite troops get melted in seconds by LMG34 fire while not being able to crack that juicy 30% received accuracy. And if Obers get vet 3-4, they are basically invulnerable to anything on foot.
''but get vehicles''. Sure, I'm not saying they are completely invincible. But an entire part of the game -infantry vs infantry combat- gets thrown out of the window because his infantry is strictly superior to yours, unless he micros them terribly (this also kinda goes for Volks and their stupid -60% received accuracy vet). The Jagdtiger was similarily problematic, in that once it came out Allied armor was damn near obsolete in a scenario where forces are otherwise fairly equal. Same with the ISU, which could pretty much single-handedly prevent Axis infantry from, well, existing. The Jagd and ISU were nerfed because Relic recognized that problem, it's time they also figure out that having squads of Terminators that can only be countered by vehicles is stupid. |
Since when a single 11 DPS MG is very good at killing infantry?
That's pretty much the same DPS as a grenadier LMG42. It won't destroy blobs, but it's not a pure AT vehicle either, and has a great kiting potential. I've seen it with 15-20 kills several time, and it's a very solid vehicle overall. The gun can also snipe a few models. As QueenRatchet has said, the Puma is a very cost-effective vehicle. I swear by it when I play OKW.
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No, I didn't say Puma isn't good. I said it isn't an exceptional AT. It is a moderate one.
You forget the USF AT gun which is an excellent AT while using the armor piercing amo.
If you compare them to guards, I agree with you. The PTRS could use a penetration buff. But, nevertheless, volks don't have no "button" ability.... even if this comes with an expensive upgrade.
Agree that OKW has amazing infantry, at least they have that. But its AT capabilities are rather moderate untill Panther and jagdpanzer. No, I don't think one "schreked" volks squad repesents an "excellent" AT unit. They are not panzer grenadiers. They don't get double schrecks, not to consider the scatter nerf of bazookas and schrecks.
The USF At gun? The one that requires a gimp tier to get, only starts competing with other AT guns when it's vet 1 + uses an ability, has fairly low pen even when using AP rounds and gets decrewed in seconds because its 4 men? Yeah sure, that totally makes up for shit AT like the Stuart and Bazooka. USf AT is worse than OKW's, that's just a friggin fact. They have one good non-doctrinal AT unit, the Jackson, which requires an ability to really shine and dies to a sneeze. Compared to shrecks, Puma (which is an amazing unit, not a moderate one by any means), Jagdpanzer and Panther? There's no competition here.
Shreck volks are the best AT squad in the game for cost by a country mile. PGrens cost a bit too much and are pretty fragile, and give up too much AI power. Guards are good for Button, which almost all axis vehicles can counter instantly with smoke. Bazookas are pure shit. Shrecked volks don't give up much AI power since they got a good grenade, are very cheap, and become incredibly tough thanks to their insane veterancy. I'm not saying they need a nerf, just stating facts, OKW cannot complain aout having poor AT at all.
And I'm OK with OKW having the best AT in the game, since they lack medium tanks and their fuel-based options are usually quite costly. Puma, Jagdpanzer, Panther, shrecks- all these units are very good, but not OP. They do their job well, that's it.
The problem is when you add superinfantry like Obers (or Pfusiliers, or JLI, or Falls) to the mix, which does not suffer from the ressource penalty, apart from Pfusiliers G43, and allows you to easily reign supreme in the infantry war unless your opponent uses snipers or a big US blob. Shit, even Sturmpioneers can fare very well lategame if you keep them vetted. OKW vehicles being very good makes sense, given the ressource penalty; OKW infantry being almost strictly superior while not suffering from said penalty is not fine. Obers are just the most dramatic example of that. |
So you think raketenwerfer is extremely good AT? Just lol. Puma, you think it's an extremely good AT? Let me tell you what it's an extremely good AT: PAk40 is an excellent AT. Panther it's an excellent AT on wheels. American AT gun while using the piercing armor amo. Jackson. Su-85. Those are extremely good AT. What is NOT an extremely good AT is an impotent small gun with an aiming time that takes forever and a ridiculous damage and range, called raketenwerfer. What is NOT an extremely good AT it's a squad of 5 men carrying ONE panzerschreck.
The Raketen is not very good, true. Could use a tracking buff.
But really, you think the Puma isn't good? It's an amazing unit. If you use it well, it can handle anything expect doctrinal mediums/heavies. I've destroyed T-34s, Shermans, hell even Jacksons and SU-85s with it.
You also forget they get the best turretless TD in the game, and the better version of the Panther. Compared to US, which has no good AT outside of Jackson with AP rounds, OKW has truly excellent AT indeed.
And Volks are the best AT squad in the game, being cheap and very durable, so you have no room for complaints here. If you ever tried to use Guards against vehicles, you wouldn't complain at all about Volks anti-tank performance.
OKW has amazing AT, and an amazing infantry unit. Ressource penalty or no, the faction can't have its cake and eat it too. |
Did you just seriously say you avoid cc map as allies? this is not a minor l2p issue its HUGE l2p issue. urban maps is where the allies practically thrive.
OK, stop for a second.
Click on my playercard.
Probably unlike you, I play all 4 factions.
Thus, I do not select a map based on how likely I am to win in it, but on how much I like it.
Allies ARE a bit favored on close quarters map. I still tick them off because I hate close-quarters map as a rule in every Relic game.
This has nothing to do with a L2P issue, and everything with me using the map veto feature to not play on maps I don't like. I'm not sure how much clearer I can explain that.
And for the last time, until you show your own playercard you have no business using the l2p argument on myself or, really, absolutely anyone else. Until you show it, I will assume you aren't good at the game and are as biased in your playtime as you are in these forums. As such, I'll stop wasting my time and will no longer answer you anymore, since you have absolutely nothing worthwhile to contribute. |
Bullshit. The strength of obers or Shocks is completely dependant on terrain and how you use them. and you obviously use shocks the wrong way.
Oh, that's rich, why don't you stop hiding your playercard if you're going to start the L2P arguments?
Shocks are better on urban maps (unless infrared STG44s enter the picture I suppose), which I hate and avoid like the plague. In literally every other situation, Obers are better because they don't have to waste time and men closing in to start killing stuff. Their veterancy is also much better and makes them damn near immune to small arms by vet 4, which is completely retarded. |