Thread: Luchs11 Dec 2015, 04:32 AM
If the Luchs comes out too early, so does the Stuart.
Two wrongs don't make a right. I'm rather tired of any light vehicle rush myself, it causes all sorts of balance/pacing problems with snares (cough brits cough) and having to to madly tech to get AT (Soviets are more or less forced into T2 vs OKW). The cat's out of the bag on this one sadly, but still.
ANyway, I don't think the Luchs is especially OP. There are ways to counter it and it dies to anything bigger than a jeep. Adding fuel sinks to OKW seems like a better solution, indirectly ''nerfing'' the Luchs by forcing OKW to diversify their tech. |
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The only thing I hate about the unit is the default creeping barrage which lays waste to team weapons a bit too easily. Even if you hear it coming, it's a crapshoot as to whenever you move them in the right direction or straight into more rockets. |
I would agree with the last part especially. Team game last night, and I was constantly stalling Allied advances with volks long enough to bring my forces to bear, with men and armor to spare. They would have to bring everything to try and smash through my lines, but I could constantly rotate fresh volk squads in until they had to fall back.
Honestly, I think a small pop cap fix first is the only step (other than CPs for KT) that is needed in the short term. Still want to see how much of this is OPKW and how much if it is allies just needing to learn how to adjust play style to deal with a much more versatile faction.
As far as I undertand it, the faction was designed with the idea that they have tough (but not too powerful) infantry that holds the line around their medic truck/flacktrack until the tanks arrive to save the day.
Thing is, now said infantry is one of the most (if not the most) cost-efficient in the game, the tanks arrive much earlier thanks to the removal of the ressource penalty, and the medic/flak trucks feel like free boons rather than necessary bonuses when everyone else needs to invest in order to get those things. So it feels like OKW just needs to blob around with their super tough shrecked volks until minutes 15-20 when they just vomit a constant stream of the best tanks in the game too. While also locking 1/3 of the map thanks to the flacktruck just to make sure you can't really go around the doomblob, because that's fun gameplay.
The end result is a faction that is OP, and more importantly supremely annoying to play against. Only the brits in CoH1 were worst.
And it's not like they don't have choices either! Panzerfusiliers, Jaegers, Obers, vetted puppchen, Puma, JPIV, Stuka, they have loads of powerful units in their roster other than those that are usually fielded. But they don't even need them most of the time. Volkspam and a cutoff Kubel into Luchs/P4/Panther then KT. gg. |
i never said that. I said that if i see vg spam i would easily counter it with rifles/is/shock spam of my own. reading comprehension FAIL!
So that's what we should reduce the game to? Blob against blob, smashing against each other, instead of, you, nerfing an overperforming unit? How fun.
The key difference is that, if you get 10 IS (theoretical scenario, no one in their right mind does that unless it's 4v4 or something), you're not only at popcap but have no AT beyond shitty PIATS. An OKW player with 10 Volks is at 50 pop and has up to 10 shrecks on the field which is enough to smash any amount of tanks. So yeah, against a mediocre opponent 10 Volks would actually be doable. 10 AS or rifles would get annihilated by just 1 KT.
The best way to beat blobs is via indirect fire. Lo and behold, the Katyusha is mediocre, USF's good arty is DLC, and UKF has nothing good beyond a lucky AVRE shot or their 300 munitions offmaps.
Anyway, the inevitable Volksblob itself isn't the problem. The problem is that said Volks cause more bleed than they often take and, with their toughness and versatility, are often enough to delay any serious allied push until the vehicles come out and start wrecking stuff up. |
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Making mistakes against OKW is now very punishing. If you lose ground, you can bet they will start fortifying it, allowing them to get a fuel + VP all but begs for them to put flacktrack on it and deny it to you. Allow them to gain muni, you're going to have 4+ shrecks running around shortly. Lose the fuel war, you might as well quit the game because you're going to be absolutely hammered with fast Luchs, panther and/or KT.
Meanwhile the OKW player floats so much manpower he can replace losses, has infantry that is so versatile (tough + decent rifle damage + shreck + free grenade) and comparatively cheap that they can beat and/or outcap you, skilled Kubel play is a complete headache in the first 5 minutes of the game, and the fact that their teching is cheap and requires no side upgrades means they quickly unlock their potent arsenal.
OKW is OP. There's really no way around it. Does it mean they need to again be nerfed into the ground, no, but they need nerfs. Popcap being the most urgent, then we can look at problematic units like Volks, Panther and KT. I don't believe the Luchs needs a nerf, albeit Relic's decision to remove the ressource penalty while not touching vehicle costs in any way is still a monumental blunder. You can't just toss away such a core faction mechanic and not worry about the potential problems it brings. |
Peculiar because this tactic is way weaker now that the kubel lost suppression and is completely inferior to anything the allies can throw at you.
It wins straight-up slugfests against any starting infantry that is not in cover. Even Tommies.
But regardless, it doesn't need to fight. Just run around and cap, cap, cap. Until light vehicles come out, there's little counter to this tactic. And unlike the Kettenkrad in COH1, it doesn't get driven off by any infantry unit. |
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1. Guess what, Soviets can build basic infantry without investing in a building, which also gives them an advantage. Different factions have different fortes. Who knew?
2. That would actually be a buff, Osttruppen ahoy. Also if the slow moving Grens manage to close in with your faster vehicle (in contrat to Conscripts with Ooorah), you deserve to be snared.
3. Riflenade is telegraphed, can only be used at a range you don't want to be vs grens, and has a very audible sound. Might I suggest dodging? |
People wanted OKW resource income removed and teching changed. But most people also wanted a Volks redesign, side upgrades for nades and AA etc, and changes to the army that promote quality over quantity and aggressive combined arms.
IMO most OKW units should have been reworked:
ISGs sole purpose now is countering emplacement and other light arty. But flame nades, Stuka, and fast attacks already do this. ISGs are low risk high reward unit that encourages defensive play.
IR Halftrack is cool but kind of also a joke unit.
Flak track is nice but super niche and overlaps with Luches, and also MG34. Munitions Halftrack or Vampyr Halftrack would have been better.
PzIV shouldn't be in same building as Panther and JP4. It should be anti-infantry tank now.
Obers lmg should be pricier, gas grenade is just stupid. Sprint or zeal or Faust would be better. Vet 4 suppression= ability.
It goes on. This "redesign" is a joke.
I also think that they half-assed this a bit. OKW's ''overhaul'' basically meant ''let's remove the ressource penalty and buff Volks in exchange for some altogether minor veterancy nerfs''. The faction did need to be looked at, but now the feel of an elite army is completely gone since they can spam infantry and tanks as much as anyone else, tanks that often outperform everyone else's because they were balanced with the ressource penalty in mind. How they did not foresee the KT's effective price going from 390 fuel to 260 (and no build time!) being a potential problem I have no idea, among other things.
So OKW now is just a juggernaut of a faction with really powerful units and few weaknesses comparative to their vast strengths. They're far from invincible or anything, but I do feel Relic dropped the ball on this one. |
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The 222 also costs 220/15 (a stipend) and is in a building that the Ostheer player will always build. Its opportunity cost is a fraction of the AEC's 440/75, counting tech. So I feel it is fine if it doesn't excel against anything. It is more of a stopgap AT measue and M3/UC killer than anything. |
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The bundled nade is not very useful. For 45 ammo it doesn't do enough damage to justify itself and seems highly unreliable even if it has no scatter.
I also find that PGrens often take ages to actually obey the command. Sometimes a good 2-3 seconds happens between them confirming the throw and the guy actually beginning the animation. |
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