I wouldn't say it is too strong, it costs a bundle after all. It is supposed to be a very powerful unit.
What it does, is arrive way too early. It was designed with the ressource penalty in mind; this is now gone, but the KT remains and even in fairly close games can arrive at 16-17 minutes. OKW can hold out this long because Volks can now fight almost anything short of vetted Rifles and heavy tanks.
Give it a 13-14 CP cost. Don't change anything else. KT is balanced. |
But whats gonna change if you wait, say, week?
Ofc, in analysis the shorter selection the less accurate the results, but its not a rocket science, its a gardening computer game. Lets not pretend it overcomplicated and requires inhuman intellect to understand. To catch a picture in some cases there is no need in playing a game (remember isu, kat, ml20, ptrs buffs? All were predicted to be op as hell just from experienced players taking look at stat changes before patch releases, all predictions turned to be absolutely true).
You need a week or maybe whole month to conclude that 10 popcap sections vs 5 popcap volks is outstandingly ridiculous? 100% income on faction with some of most cost-effective vehicle selection is somehow normal? Maybe people should adapt to face 20 minutes double panthers, st+jt or kt with shreck blob roaming around which at the end just swarms their inferior in both numbers and quality tanks and kills them with sheer numbers advantage? Somehow magically learn a way to cost-effectively fight 5 popcap volks?
To see how terribly wrong all those things you need to make some useless complex analysis like one relic claim they do instead of actually balancing the game?
You cant be serious, and only thing which would change in a week is that win ratios difference would be even more drastic.
Indeed. While the OP overreacts I feel the graphs are still a sign of things to come.
OKW was obviously overbuffed. They lost a lot of their weaknesses while keeping all their strengths save the suppression from Kubel, hell they even got buffed Volks out of the bargain. Meanwhile UKF has been nerfed patch after patch until half their roster and all but 1 emplacements are sub-par, USF survives thanks to terminator Rifle veterancy and Pershing/Calioppe, Soviets are forced into specific build orders to even survive to the mid game, and I feel only Ostheer is well balanced.
This patch is another example of Relic balancing with a sledgehammer. OKW was hurting a bit, but that doesn't mean they should have gotten such massive buffs. Centaur and Croc were OP, but that doesn't they should be overly expensive meat shields. Tommies and snipers were also OP, but that doesn't mean they should leave the faction with mediocre frontline infantry and no reliable AT snares. |
Compared to the Werfer, I feel it does less damage but is much harder to kill. A simple drive by isn't enough, you need 3 shot from a Panther/heavy to finish it so it does have good survivability.
Given that it is doctrinal and costs 140 fuel, more than any other artillery by quite a big margin, I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt and call it not OP for now. We'll see what the future holds. |
Lock grenades behind a combat package that gives Volks two mp40s and access to grenades.
Give shrecks to Obers.
Shreck to Obers would come too late. Besides, they are designed as anti-infantry specialists.
My primary argument for putting shrecks on Sturms is because they cost more and are more fragile than Volks. Albeit I do worry that would make them a smidge too good against everything. |
It does seem like the rifle's OP veterancy are what keeps USA in the game. Which works because they can spam them easily, but you see little variety in US play. Riflespam with BARs, Captain, Stuart (maybe a howie in team games), Jackson (Pershing if doctrine). I'd say at least 75% of the US players I've seen use that build. Some do experiment with Shermans, REs, LT build, airborne and the like but those seem just inferior overall. |
i'm just regurgitating everything i was told how to counter a rushed pre-nerf centaur :-) it is very funny to see people react once the shoe's on the other foot...
also: explain to me how it is a bad thing that you have to build an AEC to counter a luchs, or how having a 2nd AT gun is impossible. or why you never fought perceived imbalance when it was the brits that were ridiculously overpowered.
Nice set of baseless assumptions here. Check my playercard, I play Ostheer as much as I play Soviet.
I actually fought the Centaur, Chruchill and Tommies when they were OP. I also thought the sniper should lose its AT shot, IF it was replaced by another viable snare. Now the Centaur is useless, the Churchill (especially Croc) is nothing but an overly expensive meatshield, and the Tommies are almost worse than Volks despite costing more and needing fuel/muni investment to compete. The Brits used to be OP, now they have been nerfed to the ground and must hang on for dear life against the overbuffed OKW. Even Ostheer is now better than them in many ways.
You know what else is funny? The Centaur was nerfed precisely because it came too early and was hard to counter. I'll follow your logic, and say Luchs deserves a nerf then.
If all you're interested in is dubious comparisons, I'm not sure any further discussion is of any interest here. The AEC is the only unit from Brits that can counter the Luchs in a timely fashion, and it is either too expensive or not good enough for this role. Play Brits and you might find that out yourself. |
you mean other than the 6pdr, the sniper, AT IS, mines...
Good luck getting more than 1 shot off with the 6 pounder vs the fast Luchs against anyone who's not asleep at their keyboard.
Sniper can't reliably counter light vehicles until it hits vet 1, which is not a guarantee. If it gets compromised, it is toast because you have no other snare.
AT IS are not only doctrinal, but mostly suck. And like the AEC, they are useless against anything but light vehicles.
Mines? Really? That's a coin flip. Mines are not a reliable counter to anything, especially against good players.
I'm not sure you even play brits if you think those are counters to a properly used Luchs. |
so you want to buff a unit that is in a perfect spot vs. one of the factions, but not against the other(s)... there's no way this could go wrong, right?
A perfect spot? The AEC is useful against light vehicles only because it does no damage to infantry and lacks the mobility/range to be useful against mediums like the Puma. So the Luchs, Flaktrack, Ost HT, and 222 are the only units it actually counters. Of those, only 2 are even used in the meta right now anyway. The only reason the unit is even a thing is because now Brits have no other option against the early Luchs. If it weren't for that, no one would ever build it.
|
They never went away. Rifleblob has been USF meta almost since their inception. OKW blobbed at release, kinda stopped after nerfs, now they are back with a vengeance. Brits also blob since their release.
The only new style I encountered recently are G43 Gren blobs, but those aren't that much of an issue because, unlike the above, their vet doesn't make them superhuman. |
IMO;
-Make PIATs accurate. Zookas were buffed to actually be worth their asking price, well so should they. Double PIATs should be a threat to vehicles, not a joke.
-Give Brits an AT snare that doesn't require vet 1. Put it on Sappers or something, if we want to avoid copying other factions.
-Buff the Centaur and Croc back. They used to be crazy OP, now they aren't worth the asking price.
-Buff the UC. Maybe give it extra HP/armor if it gets an upgrade, and better pathing wouldn't hurt.
-Change the Tulip to be less expensive, but also less powerful. That, or increase Firefly fire rate.
-Lower the teching cost for AEC, and increase its range or penetration.
Not all of these changes are required, but Brits need some love, especially early game. OKW seems to just walk over them easily now. |