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Thread: How long we have to face ISU witch one shoot everyhting?17 Aug 2014, 12:20 PM Jump back to quoted post17 Aug 2014, 12:03 PMKronosaur0s Except that Jagdtiger will get stunned every time, you forgot to mention dat yea, with zis fire rate, stunning it is totally reliable. but still whats the % of stunning? In: COH2 Balance
Thread: How long we have to face ISU witch one shoot everyhting?17 Aug 2014, 10:04 AM Jump back to quoted post17 Aug 2014, 10:02 AMxeno All these superhero longerange units have to go. ISU, elefant and jagd. this is true, remove all, replace with tigers/command panther we would have a better balanced game. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: How long we have to face ISU witch one shoot everyhting?17 Aug 2014, 09:51 AM Jump back to quoted post17 Aug 2014, 07:51 AMBulgakov wongtp Most Played Faction/Mode: Soviets 2v2 Ranked I wonder how many of your 1000+ games as Sovs were won with ISU-152. Don't sit there glibly telling people "learn2flank the ISU" if you don't actually do it yourself. That's some hypocrical BS. my team uses isu152 EXTENSIVELY because of bullshit like jagdtiger/elefants that appears in almost 90% of 2v2 games. using is2 or anything else that isnt a isu152 basically gimps us because then, there is no way to bait the jagdtiger out. on the contrary, im the t34/85 player and i have to flank heavy tanks all the time. so i pretty much know how its like to flank with medium tanks especially against german superheavies. you can also note that im 38th as axis 2v2 with a MUCH lesser games played and a better win rate because heh, axis is that much simpler to play. Jump back to quoted post17 Aug 2014, 08:05 AMRoutaloid You don't clear infantry support with infantry because ISU-152 wipes any infantry trying it. You don't clear infantry support with tanks because ISU-152 wipes any tanks trying it. indirect fire, stukas, isg, incendiary mortar rounds. also, use heavy tanks to draw fire from the isu152, you can fall back and repair. flank with pumas/p4s/panthers/tanks. the isu152 will rather shoot at tigers than infantry. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: The Problem of Axis in Teamgames17 Aug 2014, 07:25 AM Jump back to quoted post17 Aug 2014, 06:51 AMDietBrownie A well placed smoke nade will make the machine gun useless. A m3 scout car will make a mg useless. 2-3 shots with a sniper will make the mg42 retreat unless the opponent isn't paying attention. They're are plentiful ways to counter it even it's in a good position. Add the bugs (Deploying wrong way is more crucial to MG42 due to slow set up time)and you got yourself a gamble machine gun. Paks being better than Zis3? At vet yes, due to target weak point. It isn't the pak's stats that's so good about, rather it's the low armour tanks that the allies have. Yes, it may have a slightly faster ROF but that's about it. I'll take the 6 man squad any day compared to the slightly faster rof. Mortars I never included in the list for a reason. Yes, maxims have a skinnier arc and has the issue where it takes a long time to recrew it as it's retreating. It's overall better due to it's survivability, fast deploy time, and damage that it does to infantry. I prefer the maxim over the mg42 but I prefer the mg34 over the maxim. "Rifles being superior is just a myth".... From the stats: 0 Meters Range: Riflemen: 28.45 Grens: 23.67 10 Meters Range: Riflemen: 19.99 Grens: 17.09 20 Meters Range: Riflemen: 12.14 Grens: 13.2 30 Meters range: Riflemen: 9.64 Grens: 9.95 Very little difference DPS wise. But guess what, riflemen are a 5 man squad! Plus add a BAR in there and you can already outperform them. Before you say, "well upgrade grens to lmg42s". Ostheer is a munitions starved faction already. They need 222 upgrade in case, flamethrowers in case, teller mines in case or shrecks. Riflemen are superior, which is fine because they have a strong early game but a weak late game. Please, look at the volk's dps and of course 2 squads will beat one riflemen... Obers are strong but they aren't that amazing anymore plus they come much later. By then your riflemen would be at vet 2 or upgunned with weapon upgrades. smoke nades requires teching or shocks to counter mg42, like all mg, they shine when used at max range, firing from the fog makes mg42 very powerful. given the lack of sprint, it takes a while for rifles/shocks to get close on the mg42 even if they pop smoke. in the mean time, focus on the squads attempting to rush mg42s. i'd be glad to make that trade with you. paks dont just have a slightly faster rof, it has a significantly higher rof that makes it does about 45% more dps than a zis. allied paper thin armour makes no difference when heavy tanks come into play. a zis will struggle against a tiger before the tiger gets behind it or slugs it out, but a pak have a pretty good chance of destroying an is2 due to its much higer firing rate. the only reason why you prefer the mg34 is the insta pin which the mg42 cannot do, that arc trumps over maxim's arc anyday. lastly, rifles. in the vacuum, grens < rifles. but ostheer t1 >>>>>>>>>>>>> USF t1. usf has only got rifles to count on, but ostheer has got mg42 to pin rifles down. you need to take advantage of this fact, before you go into unit stat differences. 3grens + 1 mg42 > 4 rifles, all unupgraded, even when bars are thrown into the picture, grens have lmg42 and it does not screw with the equation. bars need tech, while lmg42 are free with bp1 that unlocks even more units. and volks, they are cheaper and equally durable. its a pretty even fight with rifles as long as sturmpios are there to keep rifles from closing in. mg34 in t1 @ 210mp is also a steal, okw has no issue against infantry at all. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: How long we have to face ISU witch one shoot everyhting?17 Aug 2014, 07:06 AM Jump back to quoted post17 Aug 2014, 00:46 AMSeverino So the ISU is only countered by 2 units in the game (Elefant and Jagdtiger), and one of them costs a lot more and is only good vs other tanks. How do you counter ISU without those 2 units? Lets presume the Soviet player isn't an idiot and has either guards or AT guns set up to deny flanking. I don't want to see the ISU nerfed, I'd rather see counters become more viable. If it does get nerfed, then I hope it's just its AT ability. I'd like to see it shock tanks more, but do less damage and still be lethal to infantry. the same way, soviets counter jagdtigers and elefants, by indirect fire, baiting it out and flanking after clearing out infantry support. let them overextend, let them fire on your jagds and let them think that they can destroy your heavy tank, then once they proceed out too far out of support, your tanks should be in position to hit from the rear. just like AT guns are useless isu152, zis are useless against jagdtigers when their front armour is 525. to the guy who said flanking with pz4 fails because you took a shot on the way there and ur p4 was half hp. i have only l2flank to say to you. no tanks are going to survive a flank if they get shot up on the way there. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Why isn't the King Tiger doctrinal?17 Aug 2014, 06:53 AM Jump back to quoted post14 Aug 2014, 08:58 AMBulgakov By way of balance,OKW has no medium tanks, no heavy AT guns. It is a long dark wait until KT. Try early medium tank spam while they are going for their KTs instead of waiting for your ISU-152s. pumas/schrecks and panzerfusiliers AT nade. cheap rakenten, jadgpanzer with 230 frontal armour, all these have no issue dealing with medium tanks. on the issue with okw lacking medium tank counters, its a myth. pumas are a very powerful counter, too powerful for cost in my opinion. they have 50range mobility escape mechanisms good penetration fires considerably faster than a medium tank which offsets the 120dmg. small target size the best part, sight range of 50 and able to spot for itself and has a coaxial mg that does more damage than a scout car to infantry. its cons are that it only has 400hp and without enough pressure or support, can be bum rushed by mediums. not to mention, it is cheaper than mediums and comes on a very powerful tier with stukas. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Incoming received accuracy for OKW units17 Aug 2014, 06:40 AM Jump back to quoted post17 Aug 2014, 05:42 AM$nuffy I agree, Obersoldaten for such an expensive and elite squad that comes into a game when all enemy infantry has a few ranks already - drop too easily. For a 4 man squad with such long and expensive re:enforcement time I'd rather spam Assault pios with their STG's and Volks who suck in the beginning, but rank like crazy and push away tanks also. You actually cant afford to lose them (obers) and when the second man drops, and that can be in seconds due the Allied spamming tendencies - u have to retreat, then all over again. Assault Grens I wont even bother to comment, since they've become an expensive cannon fodder for allied infantry and only a minor distraction for allied vehicles. Don't u just love when u blow all that manpower in Assgrens squad and then pour additional 120 ammo, and along comes T34 and blows 3 out of four these guys in one shot lol ... thats the reason why spamming assault grens is never a good idea, its to supplement your forces. grens have much more utility in general and ostheer t1 is too good to skip. an assault gren helps with flanking and short range firepower, very useful against an army with predominantly rifle infantry units. on point, obersoldaten are not expensive at all, they are only 400mp. for comparison, guards are 330 and need dp28s which are another 75munitions in order to get some form of anti infantry. for the record, an ober in green cover can take on 2 guards squad quite comfortably with that received accuracy. what you are facing is probably dual browning lmg which is on the level of bullshit equal to obersoldaten. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: JagdPanzer IV vs SU8517 Aug 2014, 06:30 AM a t34/85 provides a turret, anti infantry, mobility and a little more durability on top of its anti tank capabilties. the reason for su85 under utilized is that a good 75% of the time ost/okw will go for elefants and jagdtiger to end them once and for all. the only thing that have a chance to take out these heaviest tanks destroyers are flanking t34/85s and isu152. all that results in a huge waste of resources dumped into teching to t4 and deploying a couple of su85s. once su85 is out of the game, only thing soviets have to slug out with heavy tanks are zis which are easily decrewed by indirect fire, infantry rushes and tiger/KT rounds that 2 shots zis guns quite often. so rather than to face this kind of situation, many will opt for call in tanks and save the cost, rather than t4 for heavy tank counters. allied late game AT need some help, like schrecks long range accuracy nerf so that roving bands of volksgrenadier vagabonds cannot wander the battlefield and alpha-snipe tanks. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: The Problem of Axis in Teamgames17 Aug 2014, 03:27 AM Jump back to quoted post17 Aug 2014, 01:18 AMDietBrownie I really think a lot of you guys are over exaggerating. I agree that it's easier to play as axis due to their late game advantages. But the allies make up for it during the early game. I mean seriously. We get superior support weapons (Sovs-Maxim/Snipers/Zis) and superior infantry (riflemen). Getting the Jagdtiger, Kingtiger, and other heavies take a long time to get. (CP and fuel wise) If they are desperately saving up fuel to get them, you can easily beat them early on. When my friends and I play as allies (were ranked 4), we just have to beat them early on. If late game does come, don't waste munis on Zooks or jacksons (depending on the map). Just use mark target, is2s, isus and Easy 8s. superior support teams? apart from snipers, a well placed mg42 is difficult to dig out and every other support team just out performs soviet counter parts. pak is tons better than the zis who only has easily dodged barrage in place of half the AT dps and wehr mortar with its machinegun rate is just that much better. 120mm beats it but that is 400mp vs 240mp investment. mht is still amazing with its mobility and incendiary rounds. maxim spam is an issue but a small one as long as people counter it properly. 1 or 2 mht shuts it down really hard. you can shell them and burn them out. 40+kills on the mht against a maxim player is quite common. and for okw, gang on him, coordinate with your ally and try to achieve indirect fire superiority. 1 goes stuka, another goes puma to guard it and give sight. rifles being superior is also a myth. apart from m1919 lmg rifles, infantry are pretty balanced. grens have just as much chance to kill rifles at range and the early mg42 prevents rifles from getting too close, same with volks + sturms. also, grens and volks gets grenades without specifically spending resources for it. obers still shred everything. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: The Problem of Axis in Teamgames16 Aug 2014, 19:07 PM anyways, pwnage has it right with soviet/US AT tanks. they are clunky, very situational and dont offer much except for a single advantage, range. range is only a big thing only on a speedy unit that is able to spot for itself, which was why su85 was nerfed to its current state. as for jacksons, they are still good with enough infantry support to spot for it. this is actually good, it balances their advantage to tactics when axis tanks must find ways to flank and allies must find ways to prevent flanks as well as spot for their tanks. it gives a good chance for them to counter tanks effectively, or are effectively countered by tanks. however, the same rules never apply to german tanks. for instance, pumas, these things have 50 range and also sight range of 50, this means that they can go tackling mediums without the need for infantry support to spot. they are also speedy enough to reverse out of danger. smoke abilities and other get out of jail cards arent helping either. that is just part of the problem. germans also have their own class of heavy tanks that allies dont and frontal armor just becomes more and more ridiculous each new addition. jagdtiger and KT have 525 and 425 frontal armor respectively with 1280hp. that means conventional weapons and tactics like AT guns, will never work on these things only flanking or plasma cannons can take them out. despite such an immense advantage on durability, they are also decked out with faceraping weapons that can 2-3shot tanks at 85range for the JT, or 2 shot infantry squads for the KT. the late game discrepancy is huge as compared to the early game advantage that the allies might have. adding on to the problem is the perceived notion that okw/ost suffers early. yet in actual fact, they rarely do. most okw/ost that knows how to deal with soviet cheese or riflemen can comfortably hold the lines to late game where they can bring out uber tanks. apart from snipers that are generally difficult to counter, okw/ost have a very good chance against scout cars with cheap AT guns/puma rush/early 222 if they teamed up together. apart from M1919 browning lmg spam, there's no other infantry that can combat lmg42 grens/volks/sturms effectively. any weapon team spam can be countered by ost auto cannon mortars, isg and fallshirmjagers popping from the rear and gunning stuff down with 40dps right off at close range. im just going to stop here, there's just so many things wrong with axis right now. In: COH2 Gameplay