volks have greater dps at most ranges during vet 0 however the opposite true for vet 3 vs vet5... vet 0 volks are pretty balanced overall though vet 5 may be arguable
ehh rifles dont get that massive vet boost either... only cons get massive accuracy and RA bonuses while grens get a large DR boost and accuracy bonuses
Rifles get a combined 38% RA boost, Volks get 24%, this is on top of rifles having a better target size than Volks by default. They also have the potential of double BARs (Even a single one is better than STGs, to my knowledge) |
Yes, somebody other than the Nazis makes a comment. Yes, thats exactly what I'm saying. It has always been good against other medium tanks and still is, not great, but good. It was also good against infantry. Now, even with two 85s, infantry just stand there and practically take no damage. Now my T85s are running from their own shadows. I mean tell me 1, just 1 tank that has to run from infantry from the Nazi side... think about it.
The t34/85 is not bad against infantry. Where are you inventing this idea from?
Look at the cannon's statistics https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1H5z6szCfhmAAnDprmgwLzc-viZg4HPhKZshNLErvnck/edit#gid=1638665511
And also look at it's MGs statistics. |
How?
Every single equivalent unit of UKF costs more pop then OKW one with sole exception being engineers and HMG/ATG.
Like which? The main standouts for "equivalent units" are Volks(Fusies) vs IS, which are 7(8) pop versus 7(8 with Bolster)(Obers are 9, also), REs vs Sturms with 6 vs 8,) the Cromwell vs the P4, with 12 vs 14, and the AEC vs the Puma, at 6 vs 7.
Depending on how you view the units, you then might want to compare the Firefly(16) to either the Jpz(15) or Panther(18). The former is more obviously "the same", but the Panther is generally what Axis use as their equivalent to Allied 60 range TDs.
Other units are generally identically priced, or don't have directly comparable units on the opposing side. The only other thing is Mortar (8 for pit, which is basically "two" mortars, 6 for standalone) vs Leig(7), but the standalone mortar is doctrinal, and the emplacements are a bit odd. |
Against Pz.4 it is good and ZiS-3 but its does not cost 130 fuel. And to spend 130 fuel for a Pz.4 hunter whose main cannon only scratches the infantry (machine guns do more damage than a gun) oh no buddy, I don't see any benefit here. The T-34-85 is a slightly less useless T-34-76. If the T-34-76 is useful as a kamikaze unit. That T-34-85 at least can kill Pz.4. 1st veterancy and the absence of any real abilities further aggravates their situation.
Only scratches infantry? Since when?
At least according to Stein's Calculations the T-34/85 cannon is very similar in performance to the P4s against infantry... the main difference being a slightly lower "near" distance... and apparently lower max scatter.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1H5z6szCfhmAAnDprmgwLzc-viZg4HPhKZshNLErvnck/edit#gid=1619743570 |
i cited some actual stats to the performance of units beyond your "my feelings" argument... your feelings are subjective and thus subject to biases... i gave some actual evidence to the numbers behind it and as to why i disagree with you... but instead of attempting to refute them you simply ignore them and continue on being delusional...
and no being a 1v1 player doesnt excuse jack shit... in a 1v1 the STG will always have a 30% dps boost to volks at range 20 regardless of game mode... it doesnt change whether its 1v1 2v2 or 4v4 hell 100v100... the STG does 30% dps at range 20 to volks period... that is IRREFUTABLE... that is FACTUAL... backup your claims with actual data before arguing because at this point your spouting out bullshit...
As i mentioned before, these numbers are very misleading. Volks and Cons both have differing damage profiles by default, so "a 30% boost" to Volks isnt comparable to a "30% boost" to cons. Particularly when you take Veterancy into account.
Volks also do have the weakest mainline Veterancy going. Middling RA and Accuracy boost, when other Mainlines have much higher numbers in one or the other category (or both). Infantry sections are an exception, with rather bad Vet, but they begin the game with much better performance, are universally upgraded with an equivalent 25% damage and RA boost (through the extra man), and later on with Brens on top of this. |
Realistically speaking you don't replace mainline with elites unless everything gets wiped (In which games your getting into 45+ min games where both sides will have 3+ tanks, meaning soviets would be favored anyway lol) I'd call volks pure early game inf, moment USF gets 2x bars they go to shit, moment svts&7men hit the field you're fucked. And brits will fuck you up anyway, with or without 5man sections.
So no, you can't replace 260 mp infantry with 320 (360? can't remember) Elites, especially since you'd need four of them to get the field presence needed to compete. Not to mention the vet 2 + upgrade, just isn't viable quite frankly.
I'm not saying you CAN do that, but it seems to be what's expected of OKW. Volks, as you say, get minced by Allied infantry (and vehicles) past early game. It feels like you're "supposed" to replace them with Obers, to be able to compete, but due to Obers late timing, cost, and the fact they need vet/LMG this isn't realistic.
Particularly as you sort of "need" three/four Volks before you tech up, you really don't have the population space to justify Obers, either. It's almost like you're encouraged to have your Volks die. I think this is part (On top of the other numerous benefits thereof) of the reason people really like Fusiliers. Early infantry that actually scales.
Honestly I don't really enjoy 1v1s, so this is mostly theoretical speculation, rather than coming from experience. |
ukf are pop limited.
i never agreed with churchill pop increase
my suggestions was a mix of +1 pop and -50% reduce in gun damage.
Are UKF pop limited to the same degree OKW is? I've never seen them as quite as strict as OKW. |
I can't find a place for myself for the T-34-85. This is anti everything - anti nothing. Its AI is not that good, Pz.4 has the best AI with constant wiping of a full squad. Its AT abilities are solid only against Pz.4, other tanks are constantly bouncing. Therefore, I will always prefer the more specialized unit SU-85 + Katyusha. Yes it will be more expensive and time-consuming. But also much more reliable.
It's a premium medium generalist. It being good against the P4 and not heavier tanks is sort of the point, surely?
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I agree that Osttruppen are overperforming right now... though the consensus SEEMS to be that this is pretty much entirely against SOV? As someone else has mentioned, this seems to be less an issue with Osttruppen, and more with Soviets.
The simplest solution would indeed to be to nerf Osttruppen, but bringing Soviet more in-line with other factions would presumably be the better option in terms of long-term game health, wouldn't it? I suppose given the ambiguity regarding future patches this is a little optimistic, though.
EDIT: Worth considering; If Osttruppen are just "good" versus UKF and USF, nerfing them to be less punishing against SOV is just going to make them kind of rubbish against both the US and UK forces, isnt it? I've never really looked into how they do precisely against those two factions. |
It's not hard, definitely. I'd say it's one of the least skill intensive things to pull off. I meant more so it is a failure if the attack did not result in taking out the intended target. This could happen if the target is well supported, resulting in either the T-34 ram failing to connect because it stepped on a mine or otherwise such as AT taking it out. In those cases, yeah, you at least save the ammunition, but the tank is still lost for practically nothing.
The alternative is the ram connected, but then the stafe + any other assaulting forces failed to finish the job. This can happen with similar cases of support.
Either way, what I am saying is it's great taking out big tanks caught out of position, but if you can support it right, you might just end up being a huge resource drain for the opponent.
Sure, but I think it failing due to overwhelming enemy support is rather more rare than you being able to get one/two extra shots into the side of the Elefant or whatever and killing it. It does succeed rather more often than it fails, in my experience. |
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